Any info on this accident?

[Bean Counter]

A busy paint job

[ullar]

Cape Town gets some really nasty blows from mountains, specially on afternoons. Even in the city one has to grab for a lamp post when hit by one of those. That doesn't keep locals having a cool evening sail though.


Lost our genua when turning into Hout Bay few miles South of Cape Town. Was waiting for a wind shadow to roll it up. A mistake.

[Ponzoa]

Originally Posted by Factor

And in a link on the same news article referred to we have a reported 21 people dying on a boat capsize, but that isnt a big deal apparently, - oh yeah, the one that people died on wasnt a multihull

https://www.news24.com/Africa/News/2...vices-20180803

It doesn't mention the kind of boat (photo is from iStock). It just says it was in a river and the boats there are not maintained and over crowded/loaded.

Sad part is that you're right, African disasters rarely make mainstream western media - as if it didn't matter almost

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

A busy paint job

Thank you for that.

Ann

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by Factor

Normal orientation for a mono

well... it hasn't fully sunk-

[Hoosierdoc]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

well... it hasn't fully sunk-

Probably just a well set anchor at low tide with too short a scope for the tidal range..

[mark_morwood]

Originally Posted by Paul L

True but clearly it hasn't sunk by the definative CF definition. No reason the crew couldn't scamper up the mast and comfortably sit on the spreaders awaiting an easy rescue.

I think most people would agree that that one was sunk assuming it was sitting on the bottom. It does appear that "sunk" has a number of vague definitions in colloquial usage, but if trying to avoid confusion I think there is only one definition that is easily measured, and that is it's afloat if the water is supporting it, it's sunk if the bottom is supporting it. I know this still leads to some corner cases, where an item is neutrally buoyant, but those cases are not likely to matter unless we shift the conversation to submarines.

Note that I don't think anyone here has suggested that "not sunk" is equivalent to habitable. That is a rather complex and subjective assessment that not only depends on the inherent buoyancy of a boat, but the distribution of the buoyancy in that particular boat, the water temperature, sea state etc.

However, I'd suggest that there are a number of advantages of unsinkable boats (ones with positive inherent buoyancy) but habitability after holing may not be one of them in many cases. Some of the advantages I see are:
- larger target for rescuers to locate
- possibility of escape from enclosed spaces
- possibility of recovering useful items
- possibility of using it as shelter while waiting for rescue, depending on design etc
- possibility of recovery of the boat, depending on circumstances

Note that once a boat has sunk in deep water - i.e. gone to the bottom, none of the above things seem to be options.

[Paul L]

Mark
Not sinking is better than sinking, no doubt. On the unsinkable Cat thread I posted a picture of a 49ft Cat with a small bit of one bow still above water after a fire in a remote anchorage. By the CF definition it hasn't sunk. Perhaps a distinction without a difference.
A large steel hull mono might have burnt its interior as the foam filled Cat did but still be truly floating, ie not sunk. Its all a tradeoff, but marketing cruising boats as unsinkable is just marketing and sounds so much sexier than sink resistant.

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by mark_morwood

I think most people would agree that that one was sunk assuming it was sitting on the bottom. It does appear that "sunk" has a number of vague definitions in colloquial usage, but if trying to avoid confusion I think there is only one definition that is easily measured, and that is it's afloat if the water is supporting it, it's sunk if the bottom is supporting it. I know this still leads to some corner cases, where an item is neutrally buoyant, but those cases are not likely to matter unless we shift the conversation to submarines.

Note that I don't think anyone here has suggested that "not sunk" is equivalent to habitable. That is a rather complex and subjective assessment that not only depends on the inherent buoyancy of a boat, but the distribution of the buoyancy in that particular boat, the water temperature, sea state etc.

However, I'd suggest that there are a number of advantages of unsinkable boats (ones with positive inherent buoyancy) but habitability after holing may not be one of them in many cases. Some of the advantages I see are:
- larger target for rescuers to locate
- possibility of escape from enclosed spaces
- possibility of recovering useful items
- possibility of using it as shelter while waiting for rescue, depending on design etc
- possibility of recovery of the boat, depending on circumstances

Note that once a boat has sunk in deep water - i.e. gone to the bottom, none of the above things seem to be options.

Good points- As a different issue, how often do rescuers leave an abandoned boat floating, after the unfortunate sailors have been taken off? It seems it would be a real hazard to others, but from many accounts I've read, they seem to leave them adrift. Is that the general maritime practice?

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Hoosierdoc

Probably just a well set anchor at low tide with too short a scope for the tidal range..

The owner probably just wanted to do a really good scrub and rinse of the bird poop on the decks without having to run the watermaker.

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

Good points- As a different issue, how often do rescuers leave an abandoned boat floating, after the unfortunate sailors have been taken off? It seems it would be a real hazard to others, but from many accounts I've read, they seem to leave them adrift. Is that the general maritime practice?

I think you're right. In most cases, the boats are left still floating, which makes them a hazard to navigation. I think everyone's focused on saving lives, which is as it should be, but there's rarely the correct follow-through. I heard of 1 case of a cat sailing from NZ to Tonga & having to abandon. They were picked up by a freighter, & after discussion, the freighter rammed the cat repeatedly to make it break up. But I don't think it happens often. And yes, while fire is an enemy of all boats, especially fiberglass boats, sandwich-construction boats (most cats, & an increasing number of monos) are very hard to sink.

[donradcliffe]

Ann, looking at the news article in the OP, it appears that the boat received immediate attention from the rescue authorities.

What impresses me in the photos is how high in the water the boat is riding, compared to some half-sunken capsized cruising cats I have been seeing lately. Either there was a lot of air trapped in the hulls or this is a really light boat.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Ann, looking at the news article in the OP, it appears that the boat received immediate attention from the rescue authorities.

What impresses me in the photos is how high in the water the boat is riding, compared to some half-sunken capsized cruising cats I have been seeing lately. Either there was a lot of air trapped in the hulls or this is a really light boat.

Hi, Don, hope you all are well. Yes, if it is a particularly light cat, all the easier for a beam puff to give it a shock.

Ann

[AiniA]

When we there the locals said to watch the table cloth on Table Mountain. When you see the clouds falling down the mountain you will get strong katabatic winds a bit offshore. Same thing in Simonstown around the corner to the east. Winds of 40 to 50 knots are commonplace. I don't know how the docks at the Simonstown YC stand up to the tremendous load - they were a bit bent but only a bit. We waited for a nice day to go around the Cape of Good Hope and ended up having motor the whole way - which was a good thing.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hi, Don, hope you all are well. Yes, if it is a particularly light cat, all the easier for a beam puff to give it a shock.

Ann

Happy Holidays to you and Jim, Ann. We are all well, and I'm off to Cabo on Monday to deliver a boat back from the HaHa. .