Any experience with the Seawind 1190 Sport?

[Markusik]

On paper, the Seawind 1190 Sport is my dream boat; strong, light for its size, outboard engines, daggerboards, powerful sail plan, yet suitable for liveaboard (and bluewater) cruising. I'm less excited about the fact that it is a relatively new design; no used ones available, and even harder than usual to find unbiased opinions.

Any firsthand experience or knowledge of the 1190 Sport would be greatly appreciated. Even opinions, unbiased or otherwise!

Fair winds,

[Andrew Grace]

Originally Posted by Markusik

On paper, the Seawind 1190 Sport is my dream boat; strong, light for its size, outboard engines, daggerboards, powerful sail plan, yet suitable for liveaboard (and bluewater) cruising. I'm less excited about the fact that it is a relatively new design; no used ones available, and even harder than usual to find unbiased opinions.

Any firsthand experience or knowledge of the 1190 Sport would be greatly appreciated. Even opinions, unbiased or otherwise!

Fair winds,

Hi Mark,

The first 1190 has only been out for a few months on the water in the USA so there is not a lot of these boats cruising yet, however the DNA for the 1190 was taken from the 1160 so a lot of the features from the 1160 are still applicable.

Below features are exactly the same as the 1160:

Hulls: (only extended by 30cm at the transom)
Outboard Engines:
Liveability :
Trifold Doors:

As for sailing I can only comment on 2nd hand feedback which was fairly positive in the extreme from the test done in Vietnam prior to shipping,

With the 1160 Lite that we own here in Singapore we are able to sail at 9knots upwind in 13 knots of True Wind (boat is fully powered up at these winds and angles) , I would expect the 1190 would do slightly better than this at the same angles and wind conditions and probable even need a reef or two given its lighter displacement and higher aspect dagger boards and rudders.

Suggest its best to contact the USA agent and see if you can get a sail on the current boat that is now launched.

cheers

Andrew

[LeeV]

Contact Bob Gleason at The Multihull Source:

The Multihull Source, 3 Narrows Road, P.O. Box 951, Wareham, MA 02571
Phone: 508-295-0095 | Fax 508-295-9082 | Email: sailfast@themultihullsource.com

I've been following the Seawind cats since their emergence years ago, and have always had a fondness for them; in fact when we sell our C-36 sometime in the next year or two we plan to move to an 1160 Lite, on which I had some test sailing after the 2016 Annapolis Boat Show.

Bob's new 1190 was there, and the boats are basically identical (as Andrew described), but is definitely a performance oriented version! Bob then sailed the boat up to his place in Massachusetts. I think he could elaborate on its abilities.

Best regards,

[Markusik]

Thanks, LeeV and Andrew, for your insights on the matter. The 1160 was my close second choice, but has moved into first. 30cm in the living areas translates into useful space, but 30cm on the transom is just a minor addition to the waterline. It seems like the 1160 would save about 80K, a few months wait, and some space from the daggerboards, while limiting the risk of being overpowered.

I have an appointment to look at an 1160 Lite tomorrow :-)

All the best,

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Markusik

SNIP

30cm in the living areas translates into useful space, but 30cm on the transom is just a minor addition to the waterline.

SNIP

When the Seawind 1000 came out it was followed by the Seawind 1000XL, which was basically the same boat with a three foot/one meter sugar scoop added. Several of the original 1000s were modified by adding sugar scoops with a huge gain in sea kindliness and performance.

Interestingly my Seawind 1000 has these sugarscoops added increasing the length from ten meters to eleven meters but the USCG documentation still lists the boat as just under ten meters as the sugar scoops don't add to living area.

But there is no question that adding the extra length greatly improves how a 1000 sails. I would not be so quick to say adding a foot to the sugar scoop is a minor addition until I was able to see how it changed the way a longer boat sailed.

Not saying it is worth the additional $US80k, but not saying it is not worth it as well.

[Factor]

the 30 cm addition is primarily to allow for the dagger rudders.

[Andrew Grace]

also worth listening to the following interview on the 1190, lots of good info here and 80K additional is not too bad if you are after a good weekend racer combined with the ability to longer term Cruise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-iTyxW5ApY

and Vietnam Sea Trials

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejqVre0rn5k

[bocajim]

I am also very interested in the 1190 Sport. The only negative I have heard is some concern about the outboards becoming flooded or otherwise compromised in rough seas (following?). Personally, I have a hard time visualizing what might occur in that situation, but I have very little experience with outboards, other than the usual compliment of dingy issues. Anyone know of any problems with the tilt up configuration of the engines?

[Don C L]

Welcome aboard bocajim!
I have no experience with the boat you are referring to but I have a cover for my outboard engine. However, if I take a big wave or two over the stern it might cause a problem or two. For me, hasn't happened yet. It could though, so it is a potential liability. It doesn't seem to mind a regular spritzing though.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by bocajim

I am also very interested in the 1190 Sport. The only negative I have heard is some concern about the outboards becoming flooded or otherwise compromised in rough seas (following?). Personally, I have a hard time visualizing what might occur in that situation, but I have very little experience with outboards, other than the usual compliment of dingy issues. Anyone know of any problems with the tilt up configuration of the engines?

My Seawind 1000 has the twin outboard configuration. Never any flooding or issue with following seas. Sounds like a comment made by someone justifying their diesels! I much prefer the twin outboards.

As for hull length of the 1190, its not the additional length that is the performance difference, it is the boards. I would expect this boat to point much higher into the wind than the 1160. If the destination is directly upwind, it will get there significantly faster than the 1160. Downwind no advantage. The downside is the boards will probably have more damage in an impact or hard grounding situation. That said, I have never sailed on an 1160 Lite or 1190, but have sailed an 1160 Deluxe. Have owned my 1000 for almost 15 years, and have cruised it and raced it.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Downwind no advantage.

There is a slight advantage downwind, Boards up means less wetted surface than the Lite or deluxe with mini keels which should mean a marginal improvement. But yes it is upwind where the greatest advantage is on offer.

[bocajim]

That is the way I took the comment as well. So tell us all a little about why you like the outboards. What are the practical advantages? To me it seems like such a sensible thing to do, from the maintenace perspective, to the ideal of having the drag entirely out of the water when sailing. I am interested in the real world feed back of someone who has lived with them Thanks!

[Sparx]

In the past year I found myself making the same analysis. In the end I came to realize that twin outboards are a great way to power light weight catamarans. Examples are the Wharrams, the Seawind 1160 lite and 1190 sport, and the Maine Cats. In all these boats the outboards are mounted in nacelles well forward of the stern, which is key to keeping the motors submerged in big seas.

I have experience sailing a Maine Cat 38 with twin outboards. I was on board the Seawind 1190 at the Newport Boat Show.

On the Maine Cat there is very clear acceleration when the motors are raised while sailing. It is amazing how much drag is inflicted dragging motor legs in the water.

The outboards are easy to maintain, and very accessible in the nacelle compartment. The outboards can be removed from the boat for service without hauling out. With the engines out of the water when not motoring the opportunity for seal failures and corrosion issues is much reduced, resulting in the expectation of good service life from a pair of outboards. Should mechanical catastrophe occur buying an new outboard is very economical compared to a moderate service event for a diesel / saildrive combination.

In my experience the motor may experience slight ventilation when motoring in a steep chop. This ventilation is due to the propeller occasionally meeting with the wave trough. The ventilation I have experienced is slight, with no material impact on boat speed or engine operations.

On the Maine Cat the fuel tank, fuel filter, and fuel line share the same compartment space with the engine. This compartment is well vented and completely sealed from the rest of the boat. There is no opportunity for gasoline liquid or vapor to enter any other space in the boat. This approach provides good mitigation to the hazards of using gasoline.

I was favorably impressed with the Seawind 1190 sport. There are lots of well thought out details on these boats.

[valhalla360]

Been aboard but haven't sailed any seawinds.

Outboard is an awesome option for small catamarans. We had a single outboard on our Gemini in a more exposed position and never had any issues with it getting flooded. It's a no brainer.
- Gasoline isn't a big concern if the tanks are bottom vented under the bridge deck (similar to a car).
- If the battery dies, you can pull start them.
- Anyone can work on an outboard
- No corrosion issues as long as you lift it clear of the water.
- Full fixed prop but no drag or complexity of a folding prop
- Worst case $3-5k gets you a brand new engine fully installed.
- Most cats get their electric from solar installations, so light duty charging is not an issue.
- Modern 4 stroke EFI engines start quick and are almost as efficient as diesel (most people knocking them are thinking of older 2 stroke outboards)

About the only thing a diesel installation gets you is the ability to make hot water when motoring.

[indimini]

We own an 1160 Lite (not quite one year). The boat has impressed us with its sailing performance - I can sail as high as 30 deg apparent before my main starts to luff. Tacking, even in light winds (< 4 kt) is possible. For us, the decision to go with the 1160 Lite vs 1190 was based on price and simplicity. While I love the fact the 1190 can draw only 18" with boards and rudders up, I am more than happy to give up a bit of sailing performance for a boat I can easily single hand. The 1190 also loses the side gate which is useful when docked.