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Old 31-08-2019, 05:48   #76
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

I donít know about all of this. Bought my boat, well maintained 1987 from a high quality builder (which I think means a lot as original systems installed more carefully and with greater attention to reliability, and of course at a higher price). Yes there has been maintenance. But generally these have been 6 relatively trouble free years including generator and AC etc. I think the key is build quality- iím not sure high volume yards have skilled enough labor to install all of these complex systems-
And lastly I have resisted replacing electronics that work for the ďnewestĒ just because it seems better. I like things that work.
So yes as folks say many boats can have same components but itís as often the installation that fails not the components
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Old 31-08-2019, 06:33   #77
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

Simpler is better? Simpler is simple, not necessarily better, I don't agree with all that preach this route.

I had a Wharram, dosent get much simpler, it is much simpler than my current boat, would I go back? Nope ,never.

Yer, more systems means more repairs but realistically the percentage of time I put into fixing stuff vs cruising and other stuff is small. Over a year it wouldnt average out to a hour a day, yet the comfort I get from solar, watermaker ,autohelm etc etc is non measurable.

Sure one can be happy on a simple boat but to claim one is happier is often just trying to justify ones own choice.

Anyway, we need something to do and bitch about...lol.
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Old 31-08-2019, 08:12   #78
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
Simpler is better? Simpler is simple, not necessarily better, I don't agree with all that preach this route.

I had a Wharram, dosent get much simpler, it is much simpler than my current boat, would I go back? Nope ,never.

Yer, more systems means more repairs but realistically the percentage of time I put into fixing stuff vs cruising and other stuff is small. Over a year it wouldnt average out to a hour a day, yet the comfort I get from solar, watermaker ,autohelm etc etc is non measurable.

Sure one can be happy on a simple boat but to claim one is happier is often just trying to justify ones own choice.

Anyway, we need something to do and bitch about...lol.
My thoughts exactly. Once we get through the initial 'getting a handle on everything', if it's an hour or two average everyday... that would be fine with us... It's still 22 hours of enjoyment.
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Old 31-08-2019, 09:22   #79
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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My thoughts exactly. Once we get through the initial 'getting a handle on everything', if it's an hour or two average everyday... that would be fine with us... It's still 22 hours of enjoyment.
You'll find most days your not working on the boat other than house keeping.

Every now and then you haul out and you have to put in some more hours. I'm on the hard now, first time in 3 years and approx 17k nm's. I'm spending some money and are physically working, but it's still not a real job. Once I'm back in the water I return to bum life.

Let's use the water maker as an example. In 3 years I haven't worked on it once other than change filters, yet we shower off every single time we get out of the water, this is sometimes 5 times each a day. Now one day I'll have to most likely spend sometime working on it, even if I spend a working week on it ,its still worth it by a long shot.

I worked 40-60 hrs a week for years, boat maintenance is nothing compared to the economic slavery most are locked into.
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Old 31-08-2019, 09:42   #80
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

"Wouldn't start". Well congratulations! And you have tons to learn. Mechanical skills are very very important if you are going to go cruising because you can't just call a mechanic. Power to starter? Starter Turns engine? Got Compression? Got Fuel? If yes to all, 99.999% of the time it would have started. Which one is no?
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Old 31-08-2019, 15:01   #81
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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.

I worked 40-60 hrs a week for years, boat maintenance is nothing compared to the economic slavery most are locked into.
Indeed
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:03   #82
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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"Wouldn't start". Well congratulations! And you have tons to learn. Mechanical skills are very very important if you are going to go cruising because you can't just call a mechanic. Power to starter? Starter Turns engine? Got Compression? Got Fuel? If yes to all, 99.999% of the time it would have started. Which one is no?
Mate, if you have the skills to get around the new electronic engines' pre-start checks, you might want to share that knowledge with the guys who have 'em, and could otherwise not be able to start their engines in a lee shore situation.

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Old 01-09-2019, 02:34   #83
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

I don’t know about all of this. Bought my boat, a well maintained 1987 from a high quality builder (which I think means a lot as original systems installed more carefully and with greater attention to reliability, and of course at a higher price). Yes there has been maintenance. But generally these have been 6 relatively trouble free years including generator and AC etc. I think the key is build quality- i’m not sure high volume yards have skilled enough labor to install all of these complex systems-
And lastly I have resisted replacing electronics that work for the “newest” just because it seems better. I like things that work.
So yes as folks say many boats can have same components but it’s as often the installation that fails not the components


I disagree a little....Not enough to start a brawl (I hope)
We also bought a high quality well setup yacht. 1997 build (Some may know her, "Quiet Achiever" a Savage/Oceanic 46)
It had been well used, full time cruising for the past 14 years, and done many sea miles.
I thought the sub systems would be OK, but in fact, they were worn out.
The average 12v pump or small hot water service and even marine spec wiring, just has a limited life.
If you are lucky enough to buy when the previous owner has just replaced some or all of the above, good luck to you.
If, like me, you buy as everything is about to expire, then you are in for the big overhaul.
This then leads to, "well if I'm doing that, I may as well do this" the "onion principle".
The other thing this has lead to is removing old stuff, filling in holes, repainting those bits, and while I have the brush going I may as well repaint that too.....Be aware that the small pump replacement can turn to a big job decommissioning the boat for quite some time along the way.
I know, I will understand my boat intimately, but I could have done without the big $ spend right now.
I actually doubt that a survey will pick this detail up. Not even a really good surveyor can tell how much life is left in a used pump or a slightly rusty hot water service or a bilge pump thats a bit grotty.
No real message here, just expect the worse and be pleasantly surprised if it turns out better than that...
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:28   #84
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
I donít know about all of this. Bought my boat, well maintained 1987 from a high quality builder (which I think means a lot as original systems installed more carefully and with greater attention to reliability, and of course at a higher price). Yes there has been maintenance. But generally these have been 6 relatively trouble free years including generator and AC etc. I think the key is build quality- iím not sure high volume yards have skilled enough labor to install all of these complex systems-
And lastly I have resisted replacing electronics that work for the ďnewestĒ just because it seems better. I like things that work.
So yes as folks say many boats can have same components but itís as often the installation that fails not the components
Sorry disagree, stuff wears out regardless of install or brand.

I've seen a guy spend over 100k on an Amel which I'm assuming you would consider a high quality builder. Right now a mate of mine is spending in access of 40k of a tayana 52, same vintage as yours.

And to suggest that boats such as yours have systems installed better than larger marquees like Beneteau is also something I'd disagree with, these guys have got pretty good at assembling their boats, they do alot of them.
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:11   #85
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

Scarlet, I know we've talked before on CF, and you hang out at Perry Yacht Club, but I can't put a name and face to you. Anyway, welcome to big boats.

I went through much of the same issues with heads when I got my boat. Previous owner rarely used the two port side heads, and the owner's side sprung a leak almost immediately after we took possession. We read somewhere (maybe here) that a little vinegar in the head will help keep the smell down, so we did that before leaving the boat to go back to KS for the first time. When we got back neither head worked on the port side. Turns out, you should only add a tiny amount of vinegar. More is not better, and all the seals swelled until the motors wouldn't turn. And the heads were some obscure brand that has one vendor in the US who doesn't return calls until at least a week later.

Owners head was badly corroded internally and was unfixable. Replaced it with a Raritan Elegance, which was a project in itself. The Raritan works perfect, but it's fresh water, and I don't have enough water flow to properly rinse the bowl. So now I have to figure out if the boat's accumulator is bad, or if I need an additional accumulator for that head.

Then came the saildrives. Get ready for that fun as I'm sure you have Yanmar diesels with SD-50 drives. There's a kit available to upgrade the bushings to bearings in the cone clutch assembly from a guy here on CF that goes by Panache 5000. Go ahead and buy those now, because your turn is coming. Of course it's possible the kit has already been installed. Look for a vent tube installed in the top of the saildrive with a red baffle at the top.

When installing the saildrive upgrade kits, you have to push the input shafts forward to remove the clutch assembly. Most of the time this goes back together just fine, but one of mine leaked. So I had to unbolt the engine and push it forward to wrestle the shaft out of the saildrive to replace the seals. These shafts are notorious for wearing a groove where the seal rides, and mine had a groove, so I replaced the shaft as well. While I was in there, I thought "no way I'm going to be looking at a 10 year old engine rear main seal and not replace it." Guess what leaks now that didn't leak before? So now I get to unbolt the engine and slide it forward again, then build a fixture to ensure the rear seal goes in perfectly straight without any possible dings.

Cruising boats are a constant battle. Big cats are twice the battle. Living in KS and having a big cat on the coast means many trips dedicated to fixing and not sailing. But hey, it beats not having a boat on the coast.
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:28   #86
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

Iím a 2012 Lagoon 450 owner since it was brand new and have near 40k ocean miles on her. Remember a boat in use is better than one not used and that goes for all the parts too.
With all the solar we installed we are electrically independent even at dock but I run the generator once a month just to make sure sheís healthy. And while sheís running I cycle through each zone and mode on the AC units. It takes about 15 minutes. I didnít do that in the beginning and had repairs.
The electric toilets worst enemy is hair. Slowly hair wraps around the macerate blades and then acts like Velcro attracting other stuff until it canít function just like you describe. Pull the pump out and take apart and unwind the buildup, a shitty job but it will run like a champ. Best to replace the little shaft seal while your in there too.
Even with instructions/warnings, guests canít just shed the habits they live with and do damage. Did I say some guests?
Again everything must be run often if only for minutes to stay healthy.
Have an inventory of spare parts onboard before venturing out. Two is one and one is none is your new motto. Even if I hire a diesel mechanic, I carry the parts. We discuss preventative maintenance and I gather the parts for our next annual session. In between I do the oils and filters and impellers as needed.
I wash my own boat top and bottom with eyes wide open to hopefully see issues/potential problems before they become disasters at sea.
Iíve had my problems and have actually upgrading things from Lagoon factory originals. After seven years, Iím now reluctantly selling my Lagoon 450 but feel very good that Iíll be passing forward an actually better boat then new. The day I actually hand over her will be one of the saddest days of my life. The adventures, the wonderful boaters weíve met and so many new friends, the memories are all priceless.
So enjoy every moment for nothing lasts forever☘️[emoji485][emoji41]
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:41   #87
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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A live aboard boat is but a floating house...
I disagree. A house is just a boat, built so badly it won't even float.
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:50   #88
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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"Wouldn't start". Well congratulations! And you have tons to learn. Mechanical skills are very very important if you are going to go cruising because you can't just call a mechanic. Power to starter? Starter Turns engine? Got Compression? Got Fuel? If yes to all, 99.999% of the time it would have started. Which one is no?
A year after selling my boat, the new owner came to me in a panic...the engine (A4) would not start. We walked back to the boat (same marina...they took my slip too when I sold them the boat) to have a look. I made sure it was in neutral, throttle position, looked for lines in the water, checked if there was fuel in the tank, pulled out the choke, turned the key, and it started on the first click.

Confused, I looked at the new owner. He said to me "choke? What's that?"
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:06   #89
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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Sorry disagree, stuff wears out regardless of install or brand.

I've seen a guy spend over 100k on an Amel which I'm assuming you would consider a high quality builder. Right now a mate of mine is spending in access of 40k of a tayana 52, same vintage as yours.

And to suggest that boats such as yours have systems installed better than larger marquees like Beneteau is also something I'd disagree with, these guys have got pretty good at assembling their boats, they do alot of them.


Maybe I just got lucky, but my point was not about the actual components. Yes pumps and mechanical equipment wear out the same but thatís easy- you just replace them on a schedule of carry a spare. But itís all the little things apart from components- like chafe guards on hoses and wire, well build cabinetry that doesnít have tiny self tapping screws in cheap veneer, well thought out access to machinery, full bronze throughulls, full 316 stainless hose clamps, robust steering system- the list goes on. I have chartered a few new boats from high volume production builders and out of curiosity spent a bit of time peeking under floorboards and behind cushions and found some mixed execution on the above. And the amount of cabinetry wear or non function like latches that wouldnít, or hinges working loose already, was surprising in a boat less than 1 year old despite charter wear. Those builders canít invest in longevity (thatís pricey) but rather price point and curb appeal as the market demands.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:25   #90
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

For years I've been travelling with all sorts of boats, including beneteau , lagoons etc. I'm just not seeing the owners of newer ( production boats) spending more or working more on their boats, I'm not seeing the "better quality" boats fairing any better, if they are better this is not transpiring into real world results.

I will acknowledge that cabinetry on old boats was of a higher standard BUT is it necessary? I'm not seeing interiors of newer boats falling apart.

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Maybe I just got lucky, but my point was not about the actual components. Yes pumps and mechanical equipment wear out the same but thatís easy- you just replace them on a schedule of carry a spare. But itís all the little things apart from components- like chafe guards on hoses and wire, well build cabinetry that doesnít have tiny self tapping screws in cheap veneer, well thought out access to machinery, full bronze throughulls, full 316 stainless hose clamps, robust steering system- the list goes on. I have chartered a few new boats from high volume production builders and out of curiosity spent a bit of time peeking under floorboards and behind cushions and found some mixed execution on the above. And the amount of cabinetry wear or non function like latches that wouldnít, or hinges working loose already, was surprising in a boat less than 1 year old despite charter wear. Those builders canít invest in longevity (thatís pricey) but rather price point and curb appeal as the market demands.
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