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Old 29-08-2019, 23:53   #61
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

Bought my boat in June. I have a list of around 40 things that I have accomplished/repaired/replaced so far. Two manual toilets replaced with electric ones was one of the first big jobs. most were convenience items and now I am looking at changing out all of the navigation electronics. Refit budget is about 20% of purchase price.

Sounds like yours is going about the same as mine. Hope to see you out there smiling.
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Old 30-08-2019, 00:00   #62
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
I've always found the leaking hatch above the wife/girlfriend's pillow to be project #1!
Not if never rains...
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Old 30-08-2019, 00:59   #63
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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Such great advice. Just to clarify... we closed on our boat on 25Jul... stayed on it for 5 days whilst we moved it north a bit. Then we came back to Kansas... Then, I flew out the 24aug to start sifting through everything... (the great news is, they left us all their stuff. The BAD news...…. is they left us all their stuff) So, it's fully loaded, that's a lot of systems to learn. We started reading the manuals as soon as we had an accepted offer. But that's a lot of systems, so it will take time.

We are definitely do it ourselv-ers. We remodeled our whole house ourselves, including electrical, fireplace... floors, drywall, plumbing, etc.. etc.. etc. So, we definitely plan on doing most everything ourselfves… but again, we've only owned it a month...

Just prepping a maintenance schedule took us a long time, again, looking at all the system manuals. But we haven't had enough time to actually work with each system. It's hard being so far away from the boat. But, we will be spending 3 weeks there in October.

As far as the electroscan, I am not overly upset that it failed... we plan on removing it. If it's reparable, we will sell it. On our list is changing the plumbing over to fresh water, as opposed to salt, and yucky water from the river and bay... It is also apparent that a few hoses in the head will need to be replace. I will do that myself as I've done plumbing before.

We did the electrical in our house ourselves, but with inverters, solar, and a couple of different battery systems , and chargers, and the generator... it is a lot more than we can learn in 10 days.

The diesel will be fine. I already know how to do the basic maintenance from working on cars, I understand filters, belts, lubricants, etc... And I know where all of those are. So, I've got a good start. I'm planning on taking the diesel engine class in Annapolis in the spring. I can handle than. I totally understand the rigging, and have already have changed a few lines, and I know how to take apart and service the winches...

But still... there is so much right now that it is just overwhelming. We eventually will get my list down..

Even though we won't be there every weekend, I think we made the best decision to buy 18 months ahead of time so that we can learn the systems, make repairs, and really get to know the boat before we head to the Caribbean.

I also wanted to address the "surveyor". He did a wonderful job. He was there for almost 8 hours, and we were right next to him the whole time. He was very thorough. He provided us with a 30+ page report. very complete. But, it's a complicated machine, and as someone above mentioned.. it was the quality of the boat the day of the survey, there is no way to predict future failures.


The main point of my post was to share my experience, which, apparently, is the norm. And to state, that there really isn't a honeymoon.

I do appreciate all the advice, and hope there will be more posters...
Ok, got your point.

We've asked for a service of the engines and the sail drives (oil change, filter change etc.) and a sanitation / winterization on the water maker membranes before acceptance, also replace the zincs, this gave us a year of cruising before doing the preventive stuff.

On the other hand we've done the bottom job first, means check all throughhulls, sand down to the gel coat and apply copper coat as long term antifouling. We hope to be able to sail for 3 seasons before the next haul out, the bottom needs a wipe every 8 weeks under water to get some built up removed, but works great so far. Only the sail drives, propellers and the log get serious builtups where we need more force to remove, because we did not paint them.

The hard antifouling is epoxy based and also a good anti osmosis treatment and should last 10 years and longer.

So our projects had been primary fixing problems or home improvement projects, not the preemptive maintenance yet. We will do this work during the winter in the marina along with repairs and upgrades.

It is good to have a maintenance plan worked out, but I would first get her ready for sailing and fix the problems preventing you from taking her out. If you focus too much on preemptive maintenance schedules, she will slowly get more issues at the dock. Check oil, coolant, fuel, sails and rigging, and take her out. Systems, that are not frequently in use tend to brake, like generators, A/C and also toilets, pumps and the like. Best maintenance is to use the systems frequently, and repair them occasionally.

The preemptive stuff is work to be done after the sailing season, other wise you'll never leave the dock.

Regarding electric systems, its not rocket science, really. Even we discuss them all over again, it are simple building blocks like Lego, you choose the patrs that fit, wire them up and it works, always put circuit breakers at the source side if the source can provide more amps than the wiring can take.

An inverter connects by a fuse and two thick wires to a battery on one side and on the other to a fuse and to the 230V or 110v outlets. If you have more sources, there must be a switch to select only one at a time, or you choose a unit with built-in transfer switch, that does the switching for you. There are more benefits of an internal transfer switch, but it would take too long to explain.

Solar is even simpler, two wires from the panels connect directly to the matching controller, and two wires from the controller go via a fuse to thepositive and negative distribution points in the boat.

Get a electrical circuit diagram for your boat, its worth it!
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Old 30-08-2019, 03:35   #64
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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Originally Posted by CatNewBee View Post
On the other hand we've done the bottom job first, means check all throughhulls, sand down to the gel coat and apply copper coat as long term antifouling. We hope to be able to sail for 3 seasons before the next haul out, the bottom needs a wipe every 8 weeks under water to get some built up removed, but works great so far. Only the sail drives, propellers and the log get serious builtups where we need more force to remove, because we did not paint them.

The hard antifouling is epoxy based and also a good anti osmosis treatment and should last 10 years and longer.
CopperCoat really does seem like a good solution for many different reasons, including the environment


Some tips for everyone from my experience across a wide range of vessels (and apologies to those who are already experienced):

- It has always been my policy to antifoul absolutely everything underwater, except the zincs of course.

- Anything that you don't antifoul will end up with growth, it's that simple. Eg: people don't antifoul props and shafts, or bow thrusters, or, or... - why on earth not? It's well worth while.

- I also take extra care to antifoul up inside through hull fittings, plumbing, sea chests, etc, boat dependant. Basically anywhere where water will sit and where you can access.

Yes, it's tedious, but so is manually cleaning all of this (or worse, having everything clogged by growth) when the boat is in the water. So get your through hulls spotless (complete disassembly preferred, but if not use a scraper, wire brush, drill bit brush, etc) and antifoul them.

- I also include transducers, speed logs, etc, even though the manufacturers don't recommend it, and supposedly it degrades performance. Yes, it does of course, but nowhere near as much as being completely fouled with growth does. Just calibrate the depth sounder and log after antifouling.

- Additionally, make sure your waterline is high enough, and scrubbable. If properly high you probably won't need to scrub it, but dirty harbours still leave stains and stationary boats still grow at the waterline.

- If you want an always beautiful boot stripe consider having this up out of the water, not exactly at the waterline (which will be much lower after you load all your cruising gear). Another trick is to use a hard scrubbable antifoul as your boot stripe (or the lower stripe if you have two), because it will grow, and it will get stained.

- Put multiple additional antifoul coats on the high wear areas (boat dependant, you will learn/see this after the first season), but normally: waterline, bow, leading edges such as keel, rudder, etc.

Some notes:

- Check compatibility between the antifoul and all underwater materials. Plastics (depth sounders, speed logs, etc) Metals (shafts, props, sail drives, etc).

- You may need to use different products, antifouls, primers, etc, on the different surfaces. Investigate such products as PropSpeed, etc, too as options. Although before these were available (or within budget) the correct primer and good antifoul worked well for me.

- Use the correct Primers if required. Don't skip this.

- Prep all the base materials to the craziest extent before priming or antifouling - you will hate doing this but later you will be happy you did so. Smooth surfaces attract less growth (and are faster too).

Also, boatyards charge and arm and a leg for this work but to achieve results suitable for a cruising boat the work is easily within the ability of most owners, even without experience. Just study Google and YouTube.

If you do ask the boatyard to do this, give them a thorough specified list of works like I wrote above, and watch and manage their workers because they like to cut corners too... (eg: even with enough budget I still did the through hulls myself - the yard could never be trusted to do this properly because it is tedious annoying work and they just couldn't really be bothered).


I have always done it like this (even when shipyards and so called professionals argue otherwise), including on champion race winning sailing boats (so they were not slow, even with antifoul - dry stored yachts excepted), normal liveaboard cruising boats, as well as both slow and fast motoryachts.



Hope this helps
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Old 30-08-2019, 04:07   #65
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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Originally Posted by scarlet View Post
If I remember correctly, it's a Onan..
As you become more familiar with the boat... you'll remember the name and model number of every major system you've got. Especially the ones you already worked on!


Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlet View Post
As far as the electroscan, I am not overly upset that it failed... we plan on removing it. If it's reparable, we will sell it. On our list is changing the plumbing over to fresh water, as opposed to salt, and yucky water from the river and bay... It is also apparent that a few hoses in the head will need to be replace. I will do that myself as I've done plumbing before.
Freshwater flush is good. You might want to hold off on that electroscan decision. If you're following through with your thoughts about Summit North Marina, you're not close to the 3-mile limit... and an alternative to pumping out (the electroscan) might well be a useful option around here.

-Chris
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Old 30-08-2019, 04:26   #66
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

Don't have any of these things to break.

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LOL! I have an older boat, less complicated boat and feel your pain. It truly is always something from leaking tanks to the raw water intake being clogged with seaweed!
don't have water intake or water tanks.

Get a smaller simple boat.

Catch the rain, don't rely on watermakers. Use the wind: never use an engine. Drink some water in the shade and acclimatize. You will really suffer and it can be dangerous on a hot day if you live in AC and it stops working.
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Old 30-08-2019, 05:59   #67
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

BTW How are your bridgedeck windows holding up?


My friend is a tech in le Marin where there are hundreds of Lagoons and probably a couple dozen of the newer 450 makes too. The challenge also relates to some Catanas.



He is pretty busy and very well paid fixing windows in the bridge. They tend to come undone on Lagoons, at least quite much so in the tropics.


Not sure if 450 is one of the affected series but I remember my clients having window problems on 450 due to, as the dealer put it, 'wrong rig tension'.


Amazing.


b.
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Old 30-08-2019, 06:51   #68
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
BTW How are your bridgedeck windows holding up?


My friend is a tech in le Marin where there are hundreds of Lagoons and probably a couple dozen of the newer 450 makes too. The challenge also relates to some Catanas.



He is pretty busy and very well paid fixing windows in the bridge. They tend to come undone on Lagoons, at least quite much so in the tropics.


Not sure if 450 is one of the affected series but I remember my clients having window problems on 450 due to, as the dealer put it, 'wrong rig tension'.


Amazing.


b.
Ours seem to be ok by now, only the paint on the hatches that open forward peels off of the aluminium (another winter project) , the fixed windows seem to be sufficiently sealed. The boat is now 6yo.

I know some Leopards have this issue too...

But I have one small portlight in the master shower, where one hinge and the glas separate, need to re-glue it with sikaflex construction glue. Fortunately the hinge pushes mechanically to the glas when closed, so it is water tight and stays in place when locked. It is the next thing on the to do list when I've got the right sikaflex at the next chandler around. (SikaSil SG-20 black + Sika Aktivator 205 B12525)
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Old 30-08-2019, 07:21   #69
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

Hello Scarlet, We live in Kansas and travel to Pensacola to see our baby. We as many have, married a boat. As soon as the "I do's" are done, the work begins. All of us have been overwhelmed with boat projects. Our boat didn't have sails, mast, or good engines when we found her as well as no working systems. She was a broken mess. But, after 4 years, I know roughly 90% of her systems and how to fix them. Owning a boat is learning how she wants to be cared. You won't be the first person to take a picture of the saloon full of tools and projects.

I try it this way, what are the three things that annoy me the most? And those are my projects for the day (or trip). Once those are done, I sit back and enjoy my boat. I try not to keep my saloon a complete mess with projects, it depresses me to much. Once those 3 projects are done for the day, I clean up my messes. My reward is a beverage or a sail. Be thankful those projects are happening while you are stationary. Fixing(learning) while underway is so much harder. Especially when significant others are not happy or worse scared. A boat needs very little to sail but needs alot to habitate.
Personally, I kept our heads very simple. We had an electric head, I pulled it after my children filled it to the brim everytime they used it. We have a purosan that we modified it to work. The origianal system never worked very well. I carry a back up hand pump for our Jabsco toilets. I hated working on the electric head. I know many have gotten theirs to work very well.
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Old 30-08-2019, 07:30   #70
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

I don't recall every having a problem on any boat I've ever owned. Opportunities and excuses to spend time on the boat - a lot. Problems, never - well except that head thing.
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Old 30-08-2019, 08:56   #71
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

[QUOTE=jmh2002;2965763SNIP


Some tips for everyone from my experience across a wide range of vessels (and apologies to those who are already experienced):

- It has always been my policy to antifoul absolutely everything underwater, except the zincs of course.


SNIP[/QUOTE]

As SMJ posted earlier there is a lot to be said for simplicity.

When I bought his old boat it had two 9.9 Yamaha outboards in wells that raise up by hand powered pully systems. I did have to maintain that by replacing the rope in the pully; but I am more than capable of doing that. When the boat is hauled I drain the fluids in the lower unit, buy an impeller kit, pull the lower unit, replace the impeller, put the lower unit back on, and replace fluids. Again something even an unskilled mechanic like me can easily do. As an aside when the boat was hauled last the yard said they could replace both outboards (which were over 5 years old but with low hours) for $US6,000 installed. Anyone know what it would cost to install two new motors on most cats.

After installing a composting head and an air cooled compressor for the fridge all the thru hull fittings were glassed over. So while I antifoul everything underwater it is a lot easier when there are not struts, shafts, props, and thru hull fittings to deal with. Also a lot easier for me to do a DIY hull cleaning with nothing but a bare hull to scrape. Also keep in mind that if you use a self polishing bottom paint and use your boat on a regular basis it self cleans to some extent; especially if you are able to sail it at 10 knots or so for a while.

No question in my mind that maintaining a boat is a lot easier if you plan ahead with the boat you buy.
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Old 30-08-2019, 13:49   #72
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

Seems you are doing well.

One thing I learned over the years is "The rule of 3":
Every job you do on a boat takes 3 times the time you estimated, costs 3 times as much, and while doing it you will find 3 equally complex and expensive jobs to add to your todo list.

Thats on a good boat, with reasonable planning of the task and some luck. Otherwise it becomes "The rule of 5"
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Old 30-08-2019, 14:22   #73
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

Thanks for posting your story.

As a long time boat owner, and someone who builds and repairs everything on board, I get your pain. I am sure I would be overwhelmed by your situation.

Boats have become more and more complicated over the last 15-20 years and this means that there will be more secondhand boats with complicated systems coming onto the market - AC, thrusters, electric toilets, lots of electronics, generators.

I think your story is valuable as it serves as a potential future for people who buy boats with complex systems. For some, choosing to go without AC, generators, extra fridges, and more is not just about keeping the boat simple, but keeping themselves sane.

You could start chucking stuff off the boat, not the motors of course, but you can make a holding tank in a stern compartment for the toilet or go composting, that will never fail and you can go to a simple toilet. You can chuck the gen set and AC and get a cover made for the boom and get the hatches open. You can put some ribbon on the shrouds and forget the wind instruments, get an IPAD with Navionics on it and ditch the plotter. It will make the boat lighter, faster and easier to maintain.

Everything we own, owns us so only bring the essentials aboard.
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Old 30-08-2019, 15:56   #74
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

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Everything we own, owns us so only bring the essentials aboard.

Exactly, but I'm not sure this is what the "MODERN" cruiser is prepared to accept.

Having just completed the Kimberly season, I was shocked at the number of boat owners stressing over boat related breakdowns and cutting their cruise short. Electronics, Refrigeration, Watermakers being the big three.

The 3 things that we either don't have or can do without.
So unlike a lot we met we had another great, stress free time.

( except for WA Fisheries being very active this year, but thats another story)
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Old 30-08-2019, 16:55   #75
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Re: ....And Then Reality Hits

Boats break like crazy. I've only bought 4 used boats so no expert, but this is what I did right after purchase. Maybe I could have done it cheaper. First, I replaced all the batteries (and added some in two cases). Sellers tend not to do non cosmetic maintenance as they are moving on. I've found the vast majority of my electrical problems are low voltage or poor connection related. Replacing the batteries not only takes care of batteries, but also gives you a chance to check connections. Very little corrosion or an untightened fastener can be a big problem. I take care of mechanical problems by hiring an engine mechanic with the instruction to replace everything. Fluids, hoses, flush the heat exchanger etc. While I can sort of do it all, the professional eye can catch those things that also need to be addressed. I also replace the heads. A rebuild kit is almost as expensive as a nice clean new head. I keep some parts for spares. I check the hoses, but have not had a problem there. Sure nice not to have to work on your new old boats head a month after you buy it. A surveyor, I have found, is a professional, but whether you hired them directly or through your broker they get most of their referrals through a broker so accept that. In general, they will not go up the mast so standing rigging inspection isn't great and while they look at the engine they generally do not test the oil, inspect the heat exchanger etc. That is why I hire an engine mechanic as a second "surveyor" as he does the above. Having done all that, I still have lots of issues - whether purchased new or used.
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