Anchors for Catamarans

[CaptRehab]

Originally Posted by roscheetham

We have a Nautitech 442. Throw out the FOB which will drag if the boat turns through 180 degrees even if you have set it really hard. Buy a Rocna 20kg. You won’t be disappointed. Ours has taken us around the world and never failed.

Well at least keep the FOB and Delta as secondary anchors. Sounds like Excel, Rocna, Spade are all an improvement, and I will see what is available in Grenada when I return there.
It is always nice to have a few spare anchors ready to deploy. After using a Delta and plowing furrows in a crowded New Harbor, Block Island with a borrowed 45' Freedom on the afternoon of July 4th, I dug through the lockers and found a Fortress. It set immediately in the soft mud. In Boston Harbor I have anchored to ride out a squall before returning to the yacht club, and with my Fortress anchor set in the mud with better than 7:1 scope watched as a boat dragged past me with its mooring ball.

[fxykty]

I asked Alan at Chains Ropes and Anchors about Armorgalv and he just laughed. Paraphrasing him, he said ‘shit product and for several owners bringing their Armorgalved chains from Australia to NZ or the S PAC islands CRA had to junk their chains and replace with Maggi (if they wanted G70).’ Maybe this was experiences with the bad batch that was mentioned earlier?

So, any longer term experience with Armorgalv chain? Can it handle the more caustic and abrasive volcanic sands common in NZ and much of the S PAC?

I like the idea of 8mm G100 (Armorgalv only) or 10mm G70 (Maggi) or G80 (Armorgalv), but only if the Armorgalv really works and isn’t snake oil.

Who can supply the chain to provide to the Armorgalv folks? With the shipping of 100m to NZ this may not be economic for us, but I would like to find out.

Thankfully CRA sell Sarca anchors here so we can get the Excel we want.

[BigBeakie]

Well, Maggi also doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation lately for their galvanising, do they? Do a search here and other forums.




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[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I asked Alan at Chains Ropes and Anchors about Armorgalv and he just laughed. Paraphrasing him, he said ‘shit product and for several owners bringing their Armorgalved chains from Australia to NZ or the S PAC islands CRA had to junk their chains and replace with Maggi (if they wanted G70).’ Maybe this was experiences with the bad batch that was mentioned earlier?

So, any longer term experience with Armorgalv chain? Can it handle the more caustic and abrasive volcanic sands common in NZ and much of the S PAC?

I like the idea of 8mm G100 (Armorgalv only) or 10mm G70 (Maggi) or G80 (Armorgalv), but only if the Armorgalv really works and isn’t snake oil.

Who can supply the chain to provide to the Armorgalv folks? With the shipping of 100m to NZ this may not be economic for us, but I would like to find out.

Thankfully CRA sell Sarca anchors here so we can get the Excel we want.

I can't give you any long term evaluation of PWB Armagal, as it was buggered after about 3 months!

Two of us bought the same chain at the same time, and had the same experience.

PWB did replace with standard gal chain, but they made sure we knew they were doing us a big favour in doing so. And they wouldn't even consider reimbursing the price difference.


As for the Sarca excel, it wouldn't be in my first 5 choices.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I can't give you any long term evaluation of PWB Armagal, as it was buggered after about 3 months!



Two of us bought the same chain at the same time, and had the same experience.



PWB did replace with standard gal chain, but they made sure we knew they were doing us a big favour in doing so. And they wouldn't even consider reimbursing the price difference.





As for the Sarca excel, it wouldn't be in my first 5 choices.

Thanks, two real world experiences. Not good for the Armorgalv product though. Any others, others?

RE the Sarca Excel, if not in the first five of non-roll bar new generation anchors then that’s last by a country mile. Reasons why? Thanks

[44'cruisingcat]

Our sistership has dragged one on several occassions. When we've been anchored close by. They replaced their 20kg Excel with a 30kg, and it dragged while our 20kg bruce held. On that occassion two boats in the anchorage dragged, out of at least 20, and both had the same type of anchor.

On another occassion, in nice clean sand it simply wouldn't set. Bryan stopped trying to set it since the tide was going out and he planned to dry out anyway.

When the tide was out we had a look. Turned out the anchor was upside down, the shank dug into the sand and the plow part riding like a boat over the top of the sand.

Not for me, thanks.

[BigBeakie]

I'm calling bs on an Excel dragging along upside down. Just think about it, or better yet, next time you're with a boat that has an Excel, take it to the beach, plant it upside down in the sand (bury it, if you want to) and then pull it and see what happens. Make sure you video the results and then post a link for us all to see the Excel dragging upside down. I won't hold my breath....

Tell you what, it sounds like you were on like 1:1 scope, or something else equally dramatically wrong. It will drag in soft mud & short scope, like you had at Frazer Island, but so will many others, the Fortress excepted.

This report is so at odds with the many, many user reports to the contrary, that this report has to be considered an "outlier, for sure.

Personally, I'll put more credence in the video evidence that Steve of sv Panope has posted. It is the best testing I've seen so far. That data indicates the Excel and Spade are clearly superior. There are also the reports ( by highly experienced liveaboard bluewater voyagers) posted at Morgans Cloud that show the same thing, that when the conditions are tough, the Excel & Spade are the go to choices.




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[BigBeakie]

fxykty,

The longest use of the Armorgalv that I am aware of, AFTER the batch issue a few years ago, is about 3 years liveaboard use by Jonathan Neeves on his Lightwave cat with the 6mm G80 chain. He sent me a recent photo of it that I'll try and post. There is no corrosion whatsoever. Their boat is cruised and anchored out 365 days & nights a year.

Jon is a regular writer for Practical Sailor/ Practical Boat Owner on all matters anchoring, so he knows what he is talking about.

By the way, he has also been using an Excel for many years. He can use any anchor he wants, and he uses the Excel.


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[CaptRehab]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

I'm calling bs on an Excel dragging along upside down. Just think about it, or better yet, next time you're with a boat that has an Excel, take it to the beach, plant it upside down in the sand (bury it, if you want to) and then pull it and see what happens. Make sure you video the results and then post a link for us all to see the Excel dragging upside down. I won't hold my breath....

Tell you what, it sounds like you were on like 1:1 scope, or something else equally dramatically wrong. It will drag in soft mud & short scope, like you had at Frazer Island, but so will many others, the Fortress excepted.

This report is so at odds with the many, many user reports to the contrary, that this report has to be considered an "outlier, for sure.

Personally, I'll put more credence in the video evidence that Steve of sv Panope has posted. It is the best testing I've seen so far. That data indicates the Excel and Spade are clearly superior. There are also the reports ( by highly experienced liveaboard bluewater voyagers) posted at Morgans Cloud that show the same thing, that when the conditions are tough, the Excel & Spade are the go to choices.




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While the Spade is available in Grenada my only reservation is the welded hollow shank. You will never know how well the inside of the shank is galvanized. I have not heard of owners having the shank fail and discovering they rusted out from the inside, but I could imagine it as a long term possibility. On the other hand the Vulcan shank looks substantial enough. I understand that a thicker hollow shank gains flexural strength through the geometry. (The bending stress σ=My/I where the moment of inertia I is greater for a thicker hollow shank which will lower the stresses tensile on the outer side and compressive on the inner side.) Assuming the same steel (matched Young's modulus and strength), the hollow shaft may well be stronger. Still corrosion would be my greatest fear.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

I'm calling bs on an Excel dragging along upside down. Just think about it, or better yet, next time you're with a boat that has an Excel, take it to the beach, plant it upside down in the sand (bury it, if you want to) and then pull it and see what happens. Make sure you video the results and then post a link for us all to see the Excel dragging upside down. I won't hold my breath....

Tell you what, it sounds like you were on like 1:1 scope, or something else equally dramatically wrong. It will drag in soft mud & short scope, like you had at Frazer Island, but so will many others, the Fortress excepted.

This report is so at odds with the many, many user reports to the contrary, that this report has to be considered an "outlier, for sure.

Personally, I'll put more credence in the video evidence that Steve of sv Panope has posted. It is the best testing I've seen so far. That data indicates the Excel and Spade are clearly superior. There are also the reports ( by highly experienced liveaboard bluewater voyagers) posted at Morgans Cloud that show the same thing, that when the conditions are tough, the Excel & Spade are the go to choices.




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Short scope? WTF are you talking about? 20+m chain in 1.5 m of water is short scope? On which planet?

I really couldn't give a rat's arse what you choose to believe. Rex called me a liar too. Untill I gave his number to Bryan, and he made contact, discovered what I'd said was the truth. Made excuses, and said a 6 tonne boat really needed a 30kg anchor. (Our 20 kg Bruce held fine)
Never apologised, mind you.

I actually hope you do buy one, if you ever get your boat launched. Armourgal chain too.

You deserve it.

[slug]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Short scope? WTF are you talking about? 20+m chain in 1.5 m of water is short scope? On which planet?

I really couldn't give a rat's arse what you choose to believe. Rex called me a liar too. Untill I gave his number to Bryan, and he made contact, discovered what I'd said was the truth. Made excuses, and said a 6 tonne boat really needed a 30kg anchor. (Our 20 kg Bruce held fine)
Never apologised, mind you.

I actually hope you do buy one, if you ever get your boat launched. Armourgal chain too.

You deserve it.

I’ve been using authentic Bruce anchors for many years

Very good anchor..no complaints ..beware of imitation Bruce anchors

And 30 kg for a 6 ton boat ? This would be a Huge anchor

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by fxykty

RE the Sarca Excel, if not in the first five of non-roll bar new generation anchors then that’s last by a country mile. Reasons why? Thanks

Opinions on anchor choices tend to become unnecessarily heated, but for what it’s worth, I would pick the steel Spade over the Excel every time. Not that the Excel is a bad anchor it is significantly better than some other convex plow anchors such as the Delta, but it is not in the same league as the steel Spade.

There has been some comment about the fabricated steel Spade shank. It is important to realise that not symmetrical anchors without rollbars rely heavily on the balance and weight distribution to adopt the correct setting position. The fabricated hollow shank of the Spade keeps the shank weight low, which together with the lead, rather than steel ballast keeps the centre of gravity low and the tip weight high. Together with the concave fluke, this gives the Spade significant techical advantages and this reflects in the performance compared to anchors such as the Delta, Kobra and Excel that have a simpler construction without these features.

Rust does not seem an issue with the Spade shank. Of course there are hollow sections, such as rollbars, in many anchors. The Excel also appears to have a hollow section behind the plate welded behind the ballast. I have seen rust weeping from this area on several Excel anchors. I assume this is probably from the steel ballast rather than the air space. I doubt this is an issue, but it would concern me more than Spade’s shank.

[CaptRehab]

My wife suggested That opinions on anchors is heated because anchoring is like a religion because people toss out the anchor and pray. ��

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by CaptRehab

My wife suggested That opinions on anchors is heated because anchoring is like a religion because people toss out the anchor and pray. ��

There's always a chance things will become heated when know-nothings accuse people who have spent about 350 nights per year for the last10 years hanging from an anchor of making things up.

What possible reason would I have?

If someone is too ignorant to listen to real life experience, let them learn for themselves.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

There's always a chance things will become heated when know-nothings accuse people who have spent about 350 nights per year for the last10 years hanging from an anchor of making things up.

What possible reason would I have?

If someone is too ignorant to listen to real life experience, let them learn for themselves.

44’ you should cool down bro... bad for your heart all this anger and stress you spill. Did 10 years at anchor not mellow you a bit?