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Old 08-01-2020, 06:21   #16
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
The only thing that might make it more lively is if someone were to ask:

"What's the best anchor to hold my catamaran on the Northwest passage while I use my fully automatic weapon to hunt seal pups?" Ha ha ha

On topic and no joke, I use the 80lbs Rocna now on a high windage 50X25 cat. I had ordered a 50lbs Manson Supreme by mistake to replace my 60lbs Manson Supreme that was stolen off the bow (thanks Florida crackhead boaters). The 50lbs had me a bit nervous but also never budged an inch in any storm. The 60lbs Manson Supreme held through a direct hit hurricane by the way. I left the boat and she was still in the same spot after the eye of,I think, Irma passed over.
I knew it was like asking a question about religion. I saw a 27kg (60lb) Manson supreme in stock at the local chandlery in Grenada and it was a bit cheaper than the 25kg Rocna. Both would fit on the bow roller but nothing larger. I think all cats are high windage but parked next to a Lagoon 45 I could tell my boat had less windage
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Old 08-01-2020, 06:42   #17
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

I'd say you'll do well with the Manson Supreme. Mine held through a hurricane without dragging.

Looking up the information, Irma was a category 2 hurricane when it hit my high windage, 50ft Catamaran at anchor on a Manson Supreme 60lb. Should hold you fine. I really liked the way the supreme set and reset so reliably in everything.

Truthfully you can't go wrong with either of those anchors.
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:24   #18
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

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In my view, the best anchor designs for general primary use are:

Mantus M1
Rocna
Steel Spade
Manson Supreme
These are all new generation anchors and very similar in their ability. When I bought my boat it had a Manson Supreme and I have been very happy with it. My philosophy is you don't buy an anchor, you buy ground tackle.

I have two tracks on my Seawind. One has a Manson Supreme and the other has a real Bruce. The Manson has 150 feet of chain and the Bruce has 50 or so. I also have an easy to use bridle that I always deploy unless I am only anchoring for an afternoon.

Truth be told successfully anchoring is a process. You need to identify a good place to anchor, use a modern anchor with enough chain, make sure you don't pile chain on top of the anchor (let out the chain in slow stages), use your GPS to check your anchor is set well for maybe 30 minutes after the anchor is dropped, and use some app like Drag Queen to warn you if you are dragging.

I have seen studies claiming a lot of chain (100 ft or so) is as important as the anchor design in limiting dragging. Bottom line is if your ground tackle is good quality and you use good technique and deploy a warning system to alert you if you are dragging there is little chance of problems.
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:34   #19
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

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These are all new generation anchors and very similar in their ability. When I bought my boat it had a Manson Supreme and I have been very happy with it. My philosophy is you don't buy an anchor, you buy ground tackle.

I have two tracks on my Seawind. One has a Manson Supreme and the other has a real Bruce. The Manson has 150 feet of chain and the Bruce has 50 or so. I also have an easy to use bridle that I always deploy unless I am only anchoring for an afternoon.

Truth be told successfully anchoring is a process. You need to identify a good place to anchor, use a modern anchor with enough chain, make sure you don't pile chain on top of the anchor (let out the chain in slow stages), use your GPS to check your anchor is set well for maybe 30 minutes after the anchor is dropped, and use some app like Drag Queen to warn you if you are dragging.

I have seen studies claiming a lot of chain (100 ft or so) is as important as the anchor design in limiting dragging. Bottom line is if your ground tackle is good quality and you use good technique and deploy a warning system to alert you if you are dragging there is little chance of problems.
Absolutely.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:46   #20
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

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Absolutely.
Yes proper scope and 60 meters of chain are important. I made the bridle/snubber to minimize shock loads as well. The 20kg FOB Rock anchor has been working well but it is rusting badly and no place for hot dip galvanizing in the islands. Think I would paint it with the cold galvanize paint and retire it to a locker as my 3rd anchor.
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:05   #21
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

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The 20kg FOB Rock anchor has been working well but it is rusting badly and no place for hot dip galvanizing in the islands. .
The FOB rock anchor is one of the better convex plow anchors. It is nowhere near as good as the modern anchors I have sort listed in post #9, but it will serve well as a spare. Be careful with the tip that is very fine (one of the reasons it performs better than expected).

For those not familiar with this design here is a photo, although unfortunately this example was not given any setting force:
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Old 08-01-2020, 15:50   #22
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

You may also consider a Kobra ours has not failed us (well, except once when we did not set enough scope and the tide came up).
We used it in mud, sand, weed.
It's also reasonably priced.

And by the way we carry 3 anchors, an old spade, the Kobra, and as backup a Fortress.
Currently we have the Kobra on the bow (fwd beam center) but we will put a cradle for the spade beside it, so that it is ready to drop as well.
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Old 08-01-2020, 18:11   #23
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
In my view, the best anchor designs for general primary use are:

Mantus M1
Rocna
Steel Spade
Manson Supreme
I've not used a mantus, and therefore it would be silly of me to make any comment on them. I have used the other 3 and many others of course the SARCA EXCEL. My list:
1. by a considerable margin - Sarca Excel/Spade
2. Manson Vulcan


Roll Bar anchors don't perform as well in resetting, which is sort of important if you are anywhere with a tidal flow. See here ROCNA RESET FAILURE for one anecdotal comment
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Old 08-01-2020, 19:12   #24
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

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Very poor quality old pic, but Ive got 2 on the bow also (center line though). A Bruce (primary, 20kg) and a Fortress. The Bruce has served me well for many years and many venues (Florida, Texas, Bahamas, ...most of the W Carib).

However if I were buying today I would go with a newer generation of anchor as the primary, like a Ronca.Attachment 206433
That's similar to what we had. Two adjacent bow rollers, so you could deploy whichever you choose.

Usually used the plow as it's was easier to handle and 90% of the time held great.

In soft bottoms, we would put out the Fortress.

A few times, we would put out both (Bahamian style).

Certainly didn't want to have to go digging out a 2nd anchor if needed.
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Old 08-01-2020, 19:34   #25
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Anchors for Catamarans

Are alloy versions of Spade or Sarca Excel worth considering, or is giving away overall weight a no no? Non roll bar anchors rely on weight on a sharp point to stay upright and dig in, so it seems to me that less weight for the same physical dimensions mean the anchor will not work as well? True, or misunderstanding?

Spade Europe implies that the alloy anchor is for secondary mooring only (refer to their anchor selection page). Anchor Right say the Sarca Excel alloy anchor is a lighter weight alternative and has the same performance.

We want to upsize our current Spade S140 (30kg) to a Spade S180 (45kg) or to a Sarca Excel 8 (40kg), or maybe even Sarca Excel 9 (50kg).

Both companies have alloy equivalents. Spade A200 (26kg) is the next size available for S160, S180 and S200. Sarca Excel alloy version #8 is 20kg (no 9 version). Both company’s alloy anchors have the same dimensions as their galvanised versions.
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Old 08-01-2020, 21:01   #26
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

We’ve been using a A120 as our primary fora couple of years, and it has worked flawlessly. We chose aluminum for 2 reasons. Weight is critical on our boat, and I am our anchor windless. If weight wasn’t such an issue, I’d go with the steel.
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Old 09-01-2020, 00:39   #27
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

fxykty,

You've asked a good question re difference between a gal and alloy in the same design.

Here's the info I have from speaking with Rex at AnchorRight, taking the Excel as a specific example. He has alot of users of both on the same boat. From Rex's experience, and this is backed up by Steve's testing on Panope with the galvanized Excel vs the alloy Excel in same size ( surface area wise, not weight), the galvanised is better at resetting after being pulled out from a wind shift or tidal reversal. And the weight difference is better for hard bottoms.

The holding power at any given wind strength will be the same for both. For our 50 foot/ 13.5T cat we chose the #7 galvanized Excel (33kg) and the equivalent sized 12kg alloy Excel for our kedge and backup primary. This was one size up from Rex's size recommendation for our boat, but gave the right holding power for storm force wind & wave loads.

A fishing trawler skipper up on the GBR & down around Tassie has decades of experience anchoring in tough conditions, and he told me the gal version of the Excel bit better into coral rubble and weed than the alloy version. He had previously used Bruce, then Rocna and has used the Excel for the past 15 years since switching. His was the first case of the Rocna failing to reset that I'd heard about, he had it happen twice and then got the Excel. On the second resetting failure he nearly lost his boat up at Elizabeth reef. Since using the Excel he's had much worse wind shift events and the Excel has been reliable every time. That was good enough for me.

The Rocna sets well initially and has good holding power, but does not reset nearly as reliably as either the Spade or Excel. See the discussion and examples of Rocna reset failures at Morgans Cloud and why John no longer recommends Rocna for this reason. He recommends Spade and Excel.

I disagree that all new generation anchors are pretty much the same. It's probably true that if they are well set, the holding power is pretty much the same, but the reset ability is crucial.

You're only one reset failure away from being on the rocks.


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Old 09-01-2020, 01:59   #28
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

I think over time and testing, if there are no problems with the hollow shank, the Ultra will prove to be the best of the best. But the cost is out of our reach. Till then, the Rocna on 120m of 10mm chain has done extremely well by us so far.
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Old 09-01-2020, 15:26   #29
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

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fxykty,

You've asked a good question re difference between a gal and alloy in the same design.

Here's the info I have from speaking with Rex at AnchorRight, taking the Excel as a specific example. He has alot of users of both on the same boat. From Rex's experience, and this is backed up by Steve's testing on Panope with the galvanized Excel vs the alloy Excel in same size ( surface area wise, not weight), the galvanised is better at resetting after being pulled out from a wind shift or tidal reversal. And the weight difference is better for hard bottoms.

The holding power at any given wind strength will be the same for both. For our 50 foot/ 13.5T cat we chose the #7 galvanized Excel (33kg) and the equivalent sized 12kg alloy Excel for our kedge and backup primary. This was one size up from Rex's size recommendation for our boat, but gave the right holding power for storm force wind & wave loads.

A fishing trawler skipper up on the GBR & down around Tassie has decades of experience anchoring in tough conditions, and he told me the gal version of the Excel bit better into coral rubble and weed than the alloy version. He had previously used Bruce, then Rocna and has used the Excel for the past 15 years since switching. His was the first case of the Rocna failing to reset that I'd heard about, he had it happen twice and then got the Excel. On the second resetting failure he nearly lost his boat up at Elizabeth reef. Since using the Excel he's had much worse wind shift events and the Excel has been reliable every time. That was good enough for me.

The Rocna sets well initially and has good holding power, but does not reset nearly as reliably as either the Spade or Excel. See the discussion and examples of Rocna reset failures at Morgans Cloud and why John no longer recommends Rocna for this reason. He recommends Spade and Excel.

I disagree that all new generation anchors are pretty much the same. It's probably true that if they are well set, the holding power is pretty much the same, but the reset ability is crucial.

You're only one reset failure away from being on the rocks.


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Thanks BB, detailed reply. I also spoke with Rex, but he hadn’t told me (and I hadn’t noticed when watching Panope’s videos) about the resetting difference.

We can afford the weight, so galvanised it will be for primary. We’re thinking #8 size (40kg) even though we’re slightly longer and lighter than your cat as we’re also downsizing our chain to G70 10mm (currently have G40 12/13mm).
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Old 09-01-2020, 18:01   #30
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Re: Anchors for Catamarans

Good move on downsizing chain. We decided to be a pioneer on using a new product, a G100 8mm chain that was galvanized in Newcastle by Armogalv and then break tested. Broke at about 8 Tons and had 25% stretch before failure. I will report on how it stands up in real use, but I expect it to be excellent. There is one user who has used it for over a year and galvanising is like new, so I'm quietly optimistic.

That's a really big anchor, the # 8 Excel. I think it might be a bit over conservative. The Excel truly sets & holds like a rock. You might want to think about having a Fortress for really muddy conditions and as a dual anchor in a V for storm anchoring?


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