Anchor bridle length

[Saleen411]

I am guessing the 14m beam cat was a typo. If not it's totally out of our league to even make a suggestion for something that large.

78 foot ex racing cat.

[damianham]

Many thanks for everyone's input - it is really informative.

Cotemar thanks for taking the trouble to post some pictures - it really helps. I see you use a shackle to attach the bridle to the chain. My friend uses a clevis hook on his monohull but we used a shackle on the insistence of my (more experienced than me) crew. I appreciate that the shackle wont fall off but it takes time to attach the shackle and while the boat is swinging around ripping the anchor mount apart it is awkward and slightly unsafe. What you do is bring the snubber as a single line up through the anchor roller so it can be attached more easily which is a lot smarter than what we were doing.

I also saw a picture of a snubber plate in the "Armageddon anchor" thread in the Anchoring & Mooring forum. Anyway given my experience with my friend of using a hook without problems and wanting to have some bite on the snubber while deploying and retrieving the anchor - does anyone have any ideas about using a snubber plate that can tilt in some way to let out more chain and then release the tilt when you want the snubber plate to bite ?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by damianham

Many thanks for everyone's input - it is really informative.

Cotemar thanks for taking the trouble to post some pictures - it really helps. I see you use a shackle to attach the bridle to the chain. My friend uses a clevis hook on his monohull but we used a shackle on the insistence of my (more experienced than me) crew. I appreciate that the shackle wont fall off but it takes time to attach the shackle and while the boat is swinging around ripping the anchor mount apart it is awkward and slightly unsafe. What you do is bring the snubber as a single line up through the anchor roller so it can be attached more easily which is a lot smarter than what we were doing.

I also saw a picture of a snubber plate in the "Armageddon anchor" thread in the Anchoring & Mooring forum. Anyway given my experience with my friend of using a hook without problems and wanting to have some bite on the snubber while deploying and retrieving the anchor - does anyone have any ideas about using a snubber plate that can tilt in some way to let out more chain and then release the tilt when you want the snubber plate to bite ?

Remember the discussion of how the bridle apex commonly touches the bottom in shallow anchorages? Any non-locking plate or hook can come disconnected when the chain lies on the bottom. I've yet to find a non-locking hook/plate that will not do this, and I've tried all the latest.

A shackle is also typically far weaker than the chain; if small enough to fit through the links there is not much metal, and if it bridges the links the rated strength is fiction. However, since the snubber keeps the load down, does it need to be? I don't think so.

Soft shackles work well.

With the exception of the Wichard and Mantus hooks, locking plates and hooks are custom fabrications.

This was home-built test version and eventually rusted up. I use a prettier version now. Way strong and non-damaging to the chain. But sometimes I use a soft shackle (easy to bring over the roller) and sometimes I use a Mantus hook (the 1/4" size is great, the larger sizes are awkward single handed). Some folks like knots, but I find them slower. Many solutions.

[tunnelvision]

When I upgraded my anchor to a Mantus I also bought the bridle and chain hook with the new design chain lock. The bridle is 25ft long on each leg and my beam is 21ft. This works well for us. Mike

[chris in SG]

I bought a Mantus chain hook recently, for 10mm or 3/8" chain. I've not yet used it in 'anger' but it's worth pointing out that it's massive in comparison with a typical chain hook for that size chain. Whilst that's largely a credit to them for (possibly) over-engineering it, it isn't something you want to be swinging loose in a choppy anchorage..

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by tunnelvision

When I upgraded my anchor to a Mantus I also bought the bridle and chain hook with the new design chain lock. The bridle is 25ft long on each leg and my beam is 21ft. This works well for us. Mike

On our Outremer 45 I made up a bridle last year of 5/8 3 strand with eyes at both ends they are about 27 feet long which was based on the ability to go from one bow to the other if necessary. I use a soft shackle to attach to the all chain road . I chose that after the bridle hit the bottom and the hook popped off . The boat sits very well. I have thought about the complications of increasing scope and may consider two long lines . Most /all of our sailing has been in the caribbean so far and as the boat comes for Hurricane season .the fixed lengths work for us . There is a great article in Practical sailor about chain hooks and how they decrease the strength of the actual chain ,one of the reasons that I use a soft shackle , the other being that my Dad likes making them.
David
ps I think a bridle and a smubber are different

[AliaVita]

For what its worth, we adjust the length of the bridle to specific circumstances; we use the bow cleats to secure the bridle. We NEVER let the bridle touch the sea bed as that has caused numerous problems in the past. If securing to an anchor ball in benign conditions we make sure that the bridle is short enough to stop the ball from banging on the inside of either hull, and after much trial and error, we now always have boards up. The one area we find disconcerting in a really strong blow is how much pressure the bridle can put across the bob stays, but I can't see a way around this. We have rubber snubbers in each leg of the bridle which we find work exceedingly well. Trial, error, experience with your own boat and anchoring situations if you ask me.

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by AliaVita

For what its worth, we adjust the length of the bridle to specific circumstances; we use the bow cleats to secure the bridle. We NEVER let the bridle touch the sea bed as that has caused numerous problems in the past. If securing to an anchor ball in benign conditions we make sure that the bridle is short enough to stop the ball from banging on the inside of either hull, and after much trial and error, we now always have boards up. The one area we find disconcerting in a really strong blow is how much pressure the bridle can put across the bob stays, but I can't see a way around this. We have rubber snubbers in each leg of the bridle which we find work exceedingly well. Trial, error, experience with your own boat and anchoring situations if you ask me.

What problems have you had when the bridle hits the bottom. Fouling is not much of an issue in the areas we anchor. Also my post was not clear on us hauling During Hurricane season

[AliaVita]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

What problems have you had when the bridle hits the bottom. Fouling is not much of an issue in the areas we anchor. Also my post was not clear on us hauling During Hurricane season

We have had a couple of different chain hooks and both have come off the chain when on the bottom, and we prefer to have a hook so that we can always get the bridle off quickly if necessary. We have also had the bridle snag under a rock once, after dragging across the sea bed, and we really struggled to get it free. This can happen with chain as well but the bridle is obviously more delicate and it can work its way into places that chain can't. We haven't found any detriment to keeping the bridle off the floor.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by AliaVita

We have had a couple of different chain hooks and both have come off the chain when on the bottom, and we prefer to have a hook so that we can always get the bridle off quickly if necessary. We have also had the bridle snag under a rock once, after dragging across the sea bed, and we really struggled to get it free. This can happen with chain as well but the bridle is obviously more delicate and it can work its way into places that chain can't. We haven't found any detriment to keeping the bridle off the floor.

Soft shackle?

[AliaVita]

Originally Posted by StuM

Soft shackle?

I have thought about trying it in the past, but our hook hasn't jumped off in a long time so haven't bothered. My only concern is getting a soft shackle off quickly in a blow. Our roller is on the fwd beam so we would have to lean over quite a way to get to it, our current hook (a claw type) falls off once we haul the chain as the weight of the chain itself keeps it in place, and all we do then is pull the bridle up. That doesn't work every time but most.

On the soft shackle subject though, we have just changed some conventional snap shackles for Tylaska Spool Shackles. We have some that take a 10mm line, have a 4500kg (10,000lb) working load, are secured to the line so can't be dropped and their design means that the rope never tightens up so can always be released easily. I think one of these would be perfect for attaching a bridle to a chain using a dyneema loop, but we would still have the acrobatics issue to overcome!

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by AliaVita

I have thought about trying it in the past, but our hook hasn't jumped off in a long time so haven't bothered. My only concern is getting a soft shackle off quickly in a blow. Our roller is on the fwd beam so we would have to lean over quite a way to get to it, our current hook (a claw type) falls off once we haul the chain as the weight of the chain itself keeps it in place, and all we do then is pull the bridle up. That doesn't work every time but most.

On the soft shackle subject though, we have just changed some conventional snap shackles for Tylaska Spool Shackles. We have some that take a 10mm line, have a 4500kg (10,000lb) working load, are secured to the line so can't be dropped and their design means that the rope never tightens up so can always be released easily. I think one of these would be perfect for attaching a bridle to a chain using a dyneema loop, but we would still have the acrobatics issue to overcome!

Keeping the hook off the bottom to avoid snags and chafe is still a good reason. But to address some other concerns:

* Don't lean when you can lie down or kneel. It is against out nature but is often the better, safer answer.

* If the soft shackle is on a short single line extension, it can be removed inside the lifeline, after the anchor is stowed. This is common practice on mono snubbers and works very well. Just make sure you don't allow the line to get under the chain (internal damage). Done this way, a camel hitch also works well.

I anchor in very shallow water most of the time (5-6 feet) so keeping it off the bottom is not very practical. But the bottom is sand or mud.

[AliaVita]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Keeping the hook off the bottom to avoid snags and chafe is still a good reason. But to address some other concerns:

* Don't lean when you can lie down or kneel. It is against out nature but is often the better, safer answer.

* If the soft shackle is on a short single line extension, it can be removed inside the lifeline, after the anchor is stowed. This is common practice on mono snubbers and works very well. Just make sure you don't allow the line to get under the chain (internal damage). Done this way, a camel hitch also works well.

I anchor in very shallow water most of the time (5-6 feet) so keeping it off the bottom is not very practical. But the bottom is sand or mud.

We have to lie down to reach the chain below the roller and even then its a stretch. Its not the hardware or set up that's at issue, we just need longer arms!

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by AliaVita

We have to lie down to reach the chain below the roller and even then its a stretch. Its not the hardware or set up that's at issue, we just need longer arms!

An interesting subject . One of the advantages of the soft shackle on our Outremer over the hook is that I have rigged the lines so that the I attach the soft shackle and bridle to the chain between the windlass and the roller. the bridle ,chain and soft shackle run through the roller easily . I used to hang over the edge for the chain hook but no more. I just reverse the process when hauling up the anchor . The soft shackle not super quick to undo but as you are on a stable surface working in front of you it is not to bad . I f something was really hitting the fan you could cut it off

[Mirage Gecko]

Our standard bridle is about 3.5 metres each side.this works well in strong winds without tidal effects but a pain in wind against tide or slack weather and shallow water.We have used all sorts of different hooks and hard shackles but now only use an S type hook that is the easiest to use and stays hooked better when the bridle is on the bottom.Have considered soft shackles until a few weeks ago when we got caught early hours of the morning and needed to escape the bay in close to 40 knots and 2.5 meter close and steep seas and not what you could call a stable working platform to get everything undone and back onboard.
We also suffer when in strong tidal and opposing wind with the bridle imposing very high pressure on the dolphin strikers so we recently rigged up a second very short bridle that only just keeps its connection underwater but kept the bridle itself away from the dolphin strikers that go to the end of the prodder.