Affordable Offshore and Coastal Cruising Trimarans

[kjbsail]

Cruisenews has a list of "Offshore and Sturdy Coastal Cruisers available on the North American used boat market for under $20,000" that was very educational. I couldn't help notice that no multihulls were included on the list. Is this because no tris or cats fit this description? If anyone knows of any tris or cats built sturdy enough to be considered suitable for offshore or heavy coastal cruising for around 20k, I'd appreciate some names to begin reading up on. I'm more interested in trimarans than catamarans.

Thanks

[delmarrey]

I've been watching the market for a few years now and have yet to see any cats under $100k that I would attempt to take out in a storm or trihulls under $60K. Offshore multihulls need to be well constructed usually heavier than the average unit. For $20K you might find a 20 - 25 trihull but it'll probably be a light weight race model or a home built.

But good luck on your search. There it a lot of us out here keeping our eyes open for that one time opportunity.........

[sail_the_stars]

Delmarray has it right.

I myself am in love with mutlihulls. However, see the post about Pivers. I was quite in love with the Loadstar. My worst fears on the engineering were revealed to be well founded.

The connections between multiple hulls are in physical science known as levers. The amount of stress that needs to be designed for calls for expensive engineering. The closest engineering equivelant is aircraft wings. Properly designed aircraft wings are extremely flexible. What has increased aircraft speed and cargo capacity is lighter weight of the frame to handle the greater flexing. There are both lighter alloys and complex structural assemblies to do this The flexing is similiar in aircraft and multihulls. The costs involved in materials and design in aircraft are equally extreme.

Years ago I read an article( name and author unremembered) about how multihulls were the oldest type of boat. The earliest true ocean going vessles were tri's and cats.

It required less advanced building skills to create a voyaging multihull to travel oceanic distances. By the time you got to someplace unexplored, say Easter Island, you just settled and the boat was never really used again.

The point is that multi hulls when brand new are exceedingly strong. However the leverage creates far greater stress than any monohull would ever encounter especially in a similiar amount of time. The flexing that the leverage causes stretches every part of the boat. Something has to be designed to give. What that is isn't so simple as it seems.

A multihull is a very fickle being. With a short life. A monohull might be your best bet. At least until the technology catches up with the common folk. Steam gave way to diesel electric trains. Steam has made a comeback but my generator in my RV isn't a steam turbine, yet.

PAUL, chef, master bookbinder and very amateur engineer

[Setia]

Kjbsail,
For what it's worth ther are several older generation Tri's available here in Aust. Piver, Nichols, Crowthers, Jim Brown usual price range is 30,000 to 40,000 AUD. Subject to very thorough inspection & with good seamanship they are suitable for coastal cruising, which around here can include some pretty rough conditions. Paul, engineering problems usually have engineering solutions & I think you may be underestimating some of these old designs, right now in our marina there are 6 of these old darlings around 30 years old still out there & doing it. A mad Brit. circumnavigated in the family Lodestar in the 60's in one of those crazy single handed races via southern ocean & cape horn (can't remember the name of the book) I will admit it fell to pieces just after he passed his point of departure, but we are talking conditions that cruisers would not normally encounter. A Jim Brown currently in the marina has cruised the Pacific for 5 years.
Best of luck with your quest, Regards Glen

[Steve Rust]

A Brown Searunner or Norm Cross design may be your best bet but you may be hard pressed to find one of the larger sizes in your price range. I will limit my post to the Searunner because that's what I know. The Searunner 31 usually sells for 15-25k in good condition. Several 31's have made circumnavigations and many have made lengthy passages but to me it is a little on the small side for liveaboard cruising. Any Searunner 34, 37, or 40 in your price range will probably be in need of a refit and some repair.
I could not disagree more with the post about multihulls being fickle things and short lived. If the boat was built to plan with quality materials by a skilled builder it will not come apart on you. My Searunner 40 is 21 years old and shows no sign of structural fatigue. I have been over every square inch of my boat and have yet to find a failed joint in the connective structure. It is true these boats generate forces and stress on the structure much greater than a monohull but a properly designed and built boat can handle this. I recently did a 400 mile trip with a new friend who had many years of monohull sailing under his belt. This was his first time on a trimaran and he admitted he was unsure of what he was getting himself in for. We had winds of 15-25 knots and 6-8 foot waves for the entire trip. He came away so impressed with the solid feel and performance of the boat he could not stop talking about it. A good Brown Searuner will take you any where in the world you want to go.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by sail_the_stars

Delmarray has it right.

I myself am in love with mutlihulls. However, see the post about Pivers. I was quite in love with the Loadstar. My worst fears on the engineering were revealed to be well founded.

The connections between multiple hulls are in physical science known as levers. The amount of stress that needs to be designed for calls for expensive engineering. The closest engineering equivelant is aircraft wings. Properly designed aircraft wings are extremely flexible. What has increased aircraft speed and cargo capacity is lighter weight of the frame to handle the greater flexing. There are both lighter alloys and complex structural assemblies to do this The flexing is similiar in aircraft and multihulls. The costs involved in materials and design in aircraft are equally extreme.

Years ago I read an article( name and author unremembered) about how multihulls were the oldest type of boat. The earliest true ocean going vessles were tri's and cats.

It required less advanced building skills to create a voyaging multihull to travel oceanic distances. By the time you got to someplace unexplored, say Easter Island, you just settled and the boat was never really used again.

The point is that multi hulls when brand new are exceedingly strong. However the leverage creates far greater stress than any monohull would ever encounter especially in a similiar amount of time. The flexing that the leverage causes stretches every part of the boat. Something has to be designed to give. What that is isn't so simple as it seems.

A multihull is a very fickle being. With a short life. A monohull might be your best bet. At least until the technology catches up with the common folk. Steam gave way to diesel electric trains. Steam has made a comeback but my generator in my RV isn't a steam turbine, yet.

PAUL, chef, master bookbinder and very amateur engineer

My My your too gunshy

[boatman61]

Years ago I read an article( name and author unremembered) about how multihulls were the oldest type of boat. The earliest true ocean going vessles were tri's and cats.


That would probably have been James Wharram... he built the first catamaran to cross the atlantic in the 50's... and he has a proven simple engineering solution to beam loads/stresses... string..

[barnakiel]

I would love one of the Newicks. The cheapest one I have seen was at 60k though. I believe a good boatbuilder in an epoxy cheap place could build one (for himself) for less. Probably in combined foam strip/epoxy technique or similar.

I am not into multis after sailing some cats and always getting very disappointed. But a Newick tri looks like she can deliver.

b.

[snort]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I would love one of the Newicks. The cheapest one I have seen was at 60k though. I believe a good boatbuilder in an epoxy cheap place could build one (for himself) for less. Probably in combined foam strip/epoxy technique or similar.

I am not into multis after sailing some cats and always getting very disappointed. But a Newick tri looks like she can deliver.

b.

I'd like to hear your catamaran experiences and the reason for your disappointment. Flat sailing was a revelation to me.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by snort

I'd like to hear your catamaran experiences and the reason for your disappointment. Flat sailing was a revelation to me.

Many and varied, mostly bigger things from say 47 to 54 ft. Mostly cruising designs (Catana, Shionning, etc.).

Too slow, too cumbersome - sort of like driving a car than anything else.

But this relates only to the way the sailing is done, and only to a cruising cat. Please allow for the fact that I grew up racing mono dinghies - quick, responsive and efficient boats.

I would probably have different observations from aboard of a racing design multi. But the racing cat is far from perfect choice for an average cruising sailor.

In any case, my disappointment was only related to sailing the boats. Back in harbour or at anchor the comfort is there and I would always prefer a cat for marina / harbour use as well as for any extended cruising platform.

If you look at my early post in this thread you will see that I am not such a cat killer at all ;-)

b.

[Event_Horizon]

Originally Posted by sail_the_stars

Delmarray has it right.

I myself am in love with mutlihulls. However, see the post about Pivers. I was quite in love with the Loadstar. My worst fears on the engineering were revealed to be well founded.

The connections between multiple hulls are in physical science known as levers. The amount of stress that needs to be designed for calls for expensive engineering. The closest engineering equivelant is aircraft wings. Properly designed aircraft wings are extremely flexible. What has increased aircraft speed and cargo capacity is lighter weight of the frame to handle the greater flexing. There are both lighter alloys and complex structural assemblies to do this The flexing is similiar in aircraft and multihulls. The costs involved in materials and design in aircraft are equally extreme.

Years ago I read an article( name and author unremembered) about how multihulls were the oldest type of boat. The earliest true ocean going vessles were tri's and cats.

It required less advanced building skills to create a voyaging multihull to travel oceanic distances. By the time you got to someplace unexplored, say Easter Island, you just settled and the boat was never really used again.

The point is that multi hulls when brand new are exceedingly strong. However the leverage creates far greater stress than any monohull would ever encounter especially in a similiar amount of time. The flexing that the leverage causes stretches every part of the boat. Something has to be designed to give. What that is isn't so simple as it seems.

A multihull is a very fickle being. With a short life. A monohull might be your best bet. At least until the technology catches up with the common folk. Steam gave way to diesel electric trains. Steam has made a comeback but my generator in my RV isn't a steam turbine, yet.

PAUL, chef, master bookbinder and very amateur engineer

Outriggers/wings should be modeled as cantilever beams.

The multihulls do have higher stress concentrations where the hull connections are made. From what I've seen the problem in 'poor designs' where loading has caused problems is usually a product of material choice. Old cheap boats made from poor composite material that cannot handle very many stress cycles before plastic deformation.

I think it's a bit unfair to pin all multihulls as fickle or overly complex. Just isn't true. The engineering isn't THAT bad and materials have gotten better and cheaper.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Many and varied, mostly bigger things from say 47 to 54 ft. Mostly cruising designs (Catana, Shionning, etc.).

Too slow, too cumbersome - sort of like driving a car than anything else.

.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I would love one of the Newicks. The cheapest one I have seen was at 60k though. I believe a good boatbuilder in an epoxy cheap place could build one (for himself) for less. Probably in combined foam strip/epoxy technique or similar.

I am not into multis after sailing some cats and always getting very disappointed. But a Newick tri looks like she can deliver.

b.

I've had similar disappointment sailing charter cats. In my admittedly limited experience sailing monohulls all my life and tris for the last 10 years, nothing sails better than a tri (except an ice boat).

[anadale1]

I have a Corsair Trimaran that I purchased because of first hand experience in a Tropical Storm called Arlene. We were returning from the race to Port a Ventura in 1997 where duirng our retun to Fort Meyers from Port a Ventura we were hit just off of the coast of Cuba. We decided to turn back to Porta Venture at around 3:00 am the next morning after we had been pushed back over to Isla maharis twice and the storm was not letting up. We were registering Twenty foot seas dropping into the troff every 45 seconds and the Annometer was registering 70 mph winds. Both of our wives were below and we were fighting the wind,water and the fish flying over our bow. We arrived back at Port a Ventura and they had closed the port due to rough waters and since it's entrance is so narrow they sent us to Cozemel. There we were stuck for Five days before arranging to have the boat sailed home us so we could return to work (or AA, not really).
Anyway, this convinced me that the Corsair F-27 was for me so I went back and bought one the following Spring and have had it since. Now, I am trying to slow it down a little and purchased a Beneteau 321 and will regretfully be selling QueTal which is on classified section of Cruisers. If you wixh to look at her there is a link in teh classified which will take you to my website with all of the details and many recent pictures. She has everything that you can put on her and is ready to go to anywhere. Please check her out and let me know what you think and have anyone in mind that might want a Flat and Fast Tri. Right now she is on the trailer covered up for the winter and in the Mid West. I plan to relaunch her within the next Two to Three weeks due to the interest she has stirred.
I look forward to your responses.
Anadale1

[girouxkj]

I am interested in buying a Corsair F-27 in good condition.

Girouxkj@aol.com