Advice on the Schionning 1750

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Much of this would also apply to a slower heavier, big boat. In fact on the heavier boat, many of the loads will be even larger.

Re: being unable to obtain insurance. Is this something you know to be insurer's policy, or is it something you've invented?

I know a number of people that bought boats they couldn't get insurance on if they were operating it themselves. Far more that had highly restrictive usage requirements (no night time usage, or only under motor). The OP indicated no prior boating experience and is jumping feet first into an almost 60' high performance cat, it wouldn't suprize me if they can't get an insurance company to cover them initially.

[44'cruisingcat]

I read a lot of posts saying we'd never be able to insure a boat we built ourselves. Yet in reality it wasn't the slightest problem. In fact no company I enquired with had any reservations whatsoever.


And while we had some sailing experience, there were no documented qualifications or provable record. Anyway, a quick enquiry with a few insurers would be well worth the effort.


I agree that a ~ 60 foot Schionning wouldn't be the ideal choice of learner's boat. Neither (IMO) would a ~ 50 foot Lagoon or Catana.

[canadian cat]

[QUOTE=niecy;2295689]We're considering buying a Schionning 1750. We're first time sailors and plan to live aboard, eventually planning to circumnavigate. We're looking at one that has been for sale over a year and they've dropped the price to $650,000 /QUOTE]

Where do you see it at $650? I listing says $749K AUD

[yeloya]

I don't see big difference in sailing Schionning and Lagoon 500. The trouble is that on Schionning you will have to stay alerted any moment. These kind of boats are not forgiving. As a matter of fact, one would need to sail her much more conservatively and then all the joy is gone..
I sailed the north Atlantic under spi with my Orana, at auto pilote, averaging 8-9 kts, surfing down the waves at 20+ kts, with my wine sitting on the table and trimming once or twice the sails. These kind of things are impossible with Schionning, you would need at least two people at all time to helm, reef/unreef and trim the sails.


Cheers


Yeloya

[Factor]

Originally Posted by yeloya

These kind of things are impossible with Schionning, you would need at least two people at all time to helm, reef/unreef and trim the sails.

Bugger, apparently I have stuffed up again and sailed a 16.2 metre Gforce solo no problem.

Seriously, If you think its an issue just put two reefs in and it still will be quicker than most and easier to handle

[lifeboatcox]

Just delivered a 52ft Schionning from Australia to Hawaii. The boat was a joy to sail. A thoroughbred. No slamming and a very stable platform. It had all the glamping equipment onboard, 2 fridges, freezer, ac, washing machine. Two king size cabins and two queen size cabins, all with TV and stereo. Generator and watermaker.
The boat was very impressive in rough weather.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by yeloya

I don't see big difference in sailing Schionning and Lagoon 500. The trouble is that on Schionning you will have to stay alerted any moment. These kind of boats are not forgiving. As a matter of fact, one would need to sail her much more conservatively and then all the joy is gone..
I sailed the north Atlantic under spi with my Orana, at auto pilote, averaging 8-9 kts, surfing down the waves at 20+ kts, with my wine sitting on the table and trimming once or twice the sails. These kind of things are impossible with Schionning, you would need at least two people at all time to helm, reef/unreef and trim the sails.


Cheers


Yeloya

Seriously? I mean you're joking, right?

In reality, you'd SAIL the Schionning far more. Because it will sail, when the others have to motor sail. Yes, you'll reef it in less breeze. And still be going faster than the others even if they're motorsailing. And a boat like a Schionning will sail faster under working sails than the heavyweights will sail under a spinnaker.

Which is actually easier and safer. Less apparent wind, and no jumping around the foredeck trying to douse an out of control spi.

Is there any reason a Schionning can't sail on autopilot when an Orana can? No. None whatsoever.

[niecy]

Thanks Phil and Greg,

All good advice and well taken. We absolutely intend on doing just as you say and getting out on the sea to learn and refine our search. Our intention is to study up and learn as much as we can behind the keyboard while we finalize our affairs, an arduous business that has us trapped behind computer screens for another 8 months at least.

It goes without saying that a portion of our budget is set aside for training and hiring experienced people to help us make the transition, we don't take that lightly.

Admittedly we are no where close to being the people who can 'really get on' in a performance boat yet, but with time and good training we intend to be and hope we can find a boat that can fulfil that potential with us, rather then having to sell again in a few years for a more ideal boat. That being said it doesn't fall on deaf ears that we may just be out of our depth in terms of ability to safely sail her even with good initial training.

You're right Phil about it being a mind bender that she's likely to be slightly slower in lighter winds, thanks for that info about skin friction, gives us a good tangent to research.

You mentioned one of our greatest concerns which is the sea keeping aspect and the boat resisting pitching even if we don't get her sailing fast. We have it going on that a boat that is built for performance may be safer when sailed slower than one built mostly for comfort. What is your opinion on this?

Thanks again guys, you've given us plenty of food for thought.
Niecy

[niecy]

Thanks Wildfire,

It's easy to get swayed in all different directions at these earlier stages of learning, I appreciate the support.

Actually laughed out loud when you mentioned the easily changeable upholstery!! Everyone who's looked at her has thought the same thing I'm sure.

I don't want to be hassling people until we're ready to make a purchase but talking to the people at Schionning Designs is definitely going on the list.

Thanks again

[niecy]

You're right, this level of restriction is to be expected, I wouldn't be doing it any other way even if they weren't!

We've followed some people on YouTube who have done the same with no experience (Gone With the Wynns), they hired a Captain and were trapped in the Marina for a fair while in the beginning. Not fun, but possible.

Niecy

[niecy]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I read a lot of posts saying we'd never be able to insure a boat we built ourselves. Yet in reality it wasn't the slightest problem. In fact no company I enquired with had any reservations whatsoever.


And while we had some sailing experience, there were no documented qualifications or provable record. Anyway, a quick enquiry with a few insurers would be well worth the effort.


I agree that a ~ 60 foot Schionning wouldn't be the ideal choice of learner's boat. Neither (IMO) would a ~ 50 foot Lagoon or Catana.

Damn all three shot down in one go... bruised!! What would you suggest? Please don't say a 32ft Monohull!!

[niecy]

[QUOTE=canadian cat;2296803]

Originally Posted by niecy

We're considering buying a Schionning 1750. We're first time sailors and plan to live aboard, eventually planning to circumnavigate. We're looking at one that has been for sale over a year and they've dropped the price to $650,000 /QUOTE]

Where do you see it at $650? I listing says $749K AUD

Damn it, you're right, I got my boats mixed up... so many options! it's definitely $749,000

[WildFireAus]

Originally Posted by lifeboatcox

Just delivered a 52ft Schionning from Australia to Hawaii. The boat was a joy to sail. A thoroughbred. No slamming and a very stable platform. It had all the glamping equipment onboard, 2 fridges, freezer, ac, washing machine. Two king size cabins and two queen size cabins, all with TV and stereo. Generator and watermaker.
The boat was very impressive in rough weather.

Do you do this for a living or did u accompany owners - good to know for the future. Thanks heaps

[niecy]

Originally Posted by yeloya

I don't see big difference in sailing Schionning and Lagoon 500. The trouble is that on Schionning you will have to stay alerted any moment. These kind of boats are not forgiving. As a matter of fact, one would need to sail her much more conservatively and then all the joy is gone..
I sailed the north Atlantic under spi with my Orana, at auto pilote, averaging 8-9 kts, surfing down the waves at 20+ kts, with my wine sitting on the table and trimming once or twice the sails. These kind of things are impossible with Schionning, you would need at least two people at all time to helm, reef/unreef and trim the sails.


Cheers


Yeloya

You know what, I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts about this boat now!

This is the exact kind of stress we're trying to avoid in our life right now, constantly micro-managing a frisky boat doesn't sound like my idea of fun!

Thanks for that

[niecy]

Originally Posted by Factor

Bugger, apparently I have stuffed up again and sailed a 16.2 metre Gforce solo no problem.

Seriously, If you think its an issue just put two reefs in and it still will be quicker than most and easier to handle

Really?? This forum business is starting to give me a headache!

What you're suggesting is exactly what my husband has been saying, he's all like... "It's logical to assume that a fast boat with a reefed sail will probably be as fast as a slow boat at full sail, but when we feel adventurous and are better sailor we aren't limited by the boat"
...Although he knows as much about sailing as me, sooooo...