Advice for new owners from Australia coming to Europe to collect a boat

[simonpickard]

"see the Med in just one season? That's way not enough time! Why would you want to miss out a TON of wonderful places???"

Well for me I it's due to only having a few years to sail before needing to go back to work, and having an EU passport as well. I guess what I'm saying is, I'd rather see other parts of the world whereas I can visit the Med any time.

[simonpickard]

"one more thing for the aussies on the bank account side - the lloyds account can be opened while you are still in Oz and money transferred to it, cards recieved before you leave so no buggering around sorting that side out while you are trying to prep your boat etc"

Let's just hope the Ozzy $ stops dropping while I still have something to transfer over!

[The Miss]

Update from the Miss,
RE Bank Account

I have just applied for bank account with Lloyds Bank so will tell you how the process continues. However the online application seemed very straight forward.

Have booked in for some courses and looking into sailing experience next. Owning a home was easy but this process is far more exciting!

Thanks for great advice

the Miss

[Prairie Chicken]

Miss, it just occurred to me you may have an answer to a question I have. You bought a new boat in the EU, is that correct? As non-EU owners, did you have to pay the VAT or are you allowed to operate in the EU for a given period of time before you must leave or pay the VAT? If you had a period of time before having to leave or pay, how long?

[The Miss]

Hi Prairie Chicken,
As AU citizen no we are not required to pay VAT but will have to pay our own form of tax (GST) once the boat is returned to Australia. This will be then calculated at the boats worth at return rather than purchase price. As I understand (from what has been explained to us) we have 18 months to stay in the EU before we would be in difficulty with tax so moving to start our journey in Turkey will assist on this front as well.
If someone else has greater clarity on this I would appreciate your wisdom.
Cheers
the Miss

[Jimbo485]

Arrive in Oz with the boat in poor condition, get it valued, pay the taxes, then do what you like.

[Prairie Chicken]

Tx for your reply Miss. I could go to a PM but in case the discussion aids anyone else, I'll leave it on this thread unless you want to take it private or the mods deem it off topic.

As Canadians we're not required to pay the VAT either unless the boat remains in EU waters for > 18 continuous months. Leaving the EU, even for a day trip, supposedly resets the clock (although I've heard rumours the EU is getting more demanding of the evidence of such a trip). We eventually paid the VAT on our Canadian flagged boat after deciding we were going to leave her in the Med.

Now we've bought another boat, one for which we have no evidence the VAT was paid although it likely was, given the history of the boat. I am wondering if, as non-EU citizens buying an EU boat, we have 18 months from the date of purchase in which to find proof the VAT was paid, pay it ourselves, or get out. I understand the rules if you arrive with a non-EU boat, but what is the situation if you buy an EU boat? Do you still have 18 months?

[boatman61]

Hi, firstly congrats on the 'New Boat'..
Lots has been said about formalities etc so I'll just stick to your route to Turkey..
I suggest a straight run across the Biscay to round Finisterre and make your first stop Baiona.. from there its a 2-3 day run down to Cascais/Lisbon.. next stop I'd make would be Portimao on the Algarve.. from there its roughly 36hrs to the Straits and into the Med.. Gibs not worth stopping at and you can always see it on the way back if you want so push on another 200 miles to Almerimar... total around 4 days sailing/motoring from Portugal.
From there head on to Ibiza and San Antonio.. crap town but can get around by land to explore a lovely island and its got a large anchorage.. another nice one on the NE corner..
Next is Mallorca where you can tie up in Palma for a couple of days to mooch around before heading on to Minorca.. same again..
From there its a couple of days to Alghero N Sardinia... down around the Southern tip and across to Sicily and along its S coast with a detour across to Malta if the mood takes you..
From there I'd suggest you take the Southern route round the Greek mainland.. leaving the shortcut through the Corinth for the return trip.. seems your going to have to pay a new tax to pass through their waters and as you'll still have between 4-6weeks left before having to leave EU waters you may as well get VFM and visit as many Islands down S as you can.. then head the short hop across to Marmaris...
Coming back... the N greek isles, Athens, Corinth, up the Adriatic a bit.. back down and around the 'Boot'... up through the cut and W Italy, Corsica, France, Spain... Gib.
But others may know better..

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Barra

dont know what the fine would be dave but im sure its less than a delivery skipper eh....

one more thing for the aussies on the bank account side - the lloyds account can be opened while you are still in Oz and money transferred to it, cards recieved before you leave so no buggering around sorting that side out while you are trying to prep your boat etc

Oh and its owned by the British taxpayers so less default risk than most other banks in europe....

You did read about Northern Rock and RBS, at least European banks have the ECB behind them. !

Make sure the account is in Euros and not sterling of course.

Lloyds would not be a common high street bank in mainland Europe. So ensure you have Chip and Pin VISA /MasterCard debit cards into the account.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken

Tx for your reply Miss. I could go to a PM but in case the discussion aids anyone else, I'll leave it on this thread unless you want to take it private or the mods deem it off topic.

As Canadians we're not required to pay the VAT either unless the boat remains in EU waters for > 18 continuous months. Leaving the EU, even for a day trip, supposedly resets the clock (although I've heard rumours the EU is getting more demanding of the evidence of such a trip). We eventually paid the VAT on our Canadian flagged boat after deciding we were going to leave her in the Med.

Now we've bought another boat, one for which we have no evidence the VAT was paid although it likely was, given the history of the boat. I am wondering if, as non-EU citizens buying an EU boat, we have 18 months from the date of purchase in which to find proof the VAT was paid, pay it ourselves, or get out. I understand the rules if you arrive with a non-EU boat, but what is the situation if you buy an EU boat? Do you still have 18 months?

It's the same you get 18 months. It's your status as non tax resident that's the key.

I won't sweat the VAT proof issue , if she's ever been registered in the EU she's more then likely vat paid.

Dave

[Prairie Chicken]

Tx Dave, that's what I was wondering. In our case the boat was previously registered in the EU and everything points to it being tax paid. I do stress about the VAT-paid cert though. I believe we need to be able to prove to the Aduanas she is VAT paid.

It sounds like The Miss & myself have similar 18-month windows but she will be able to reset her clock in Turkey--lucky for you Miss--and possibly Croatia if they venture that far up the Adriatic on the way out. Miss, I suggest you not be in a rush to get back to Aus to pay your GST. The Med is a neat place to cruise and for the most part, very safe.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken

Tx Dave, that's what I was wondering. In our case the boat was previously registered in the EU and everything points to it being tax paid. I do stress about the VAT-paid cert though. I believe we need to be able to prove to the Aduanas she is VAT paid.

It sounds like The Miss & myself have similar 18-month windows but she will be able to reset her clock in Turkey--lucky for you Miss--and possibly Croatia if they venture that far up the Adriatic on the way out. Miss, I suggest you not be in a rush to get back to Aus to pay your GST. The Med is a neat place to cruise and for the most part, very safe.

No such thing as a vat paid cert by the way.

Dave

[Multihull]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Hi, firstly congrats on the 'New Boat'..
Lots has been said about formalities etc so I'll just stick to your route to Turkey..
I suggest a straight run across the Biscay to round Finisterre and make your first stop Baiona.. from there its a 2-3 day run down to Cascais/Lisbon.. next stop I'd make would be Portimao on the Algarve.. from there its roughly 36hrs to the Straits and into the Med.. Gibs not worth stopping at and you can always see it on the way back if you want so push on another 200 miles to Almerimar... total around 4 days sailing/motoring from Portugal.
From there head on to Ibiza and San Antonio.. crap town but can get around by land to explore a lovely island and its got a large anchorage.. another nice one on the NE corner..

Catana shipyard is not on the Atlantic side of France.
It is in the Med already (Canet en Roussillon).

[mark_morwood]

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken

It sounds like The Miss & myself have similar 18-month windows but she will be able to reset her clock in Turkey--lucky for you Miss--and possibly Croatia if they venture that far up the Adriatic on the way out. Miss, I suggest you not be in a rush to get back to Aus to pay your GST. The Med is a neat place to cruise and for the most part, very safe.

FYI Croatia joined the EU 6 months ago. It's getting harder and harder to find non-EU countries in the med ;-)

Also with respect to banking. There are definite advantages to having some money in a european bank with a card that has a chip and pin, however we have happily cruised the med using just our US accounts for the last year. The only time we needed a european account (which we do have) was to pay our marina for the winter as they wanted a bank transfer for the deposit - they wouldn't take a credit card over the phone. Our US bank card allows us to withdraw local cash at almost any ATM with no extra charges (be careful as many accounts do have international charges). Likewise we have a US credit card that carries no extra charges for international use (likewise you need to be careful as many credit cards have swingeing charges for international transactions). I assume you can find similar deals with Australian banks/cards. It just depends on your personal situation as to where it is easier to manage your money, and your guess as to currency fluctuations. Also note that you will probably only be able to get a debit account in Europe, not a credit account, if you are not a resident with some history.

And lastly with respect to schedule, you could certainly spend more than a year in the med and still have only scratched the surface, but the same is true of most of the other places you will visit on your way back to Australia so there are always compromises to be made. We've found we are happiest if we just pick a couple of places to see well, and then just accept that we are sailing past a lot of other places that we'll have to see "next time".

Good luck,
Mark.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken

Tx Dave, that's what I was wondering. In our case the boat was previously registered in the EU and everything points to it being tax paid. I do stress about the VAT-paid cert though. I believe we need to be able to prove to the Aduanas she is VAT paid.

It sounds like The Miss & myself have similar 18-month windows but she will be able to reset her clock in Turkey--lucky for you Miss--and possibly Croatia if they venture that far up the Adriatic on the way out. Miss, I suggest you not be in a rush to get back to Aus to pay your GST. The Med is a neat place to cruise and for the most part, very safe.

You may not be aware that Turkey ( by treaty) is actually inside the customs union of the EU.

dave