A few questions before making an offer

[Mike Banks]

Sorry to tell you this--but you pay ALL costs incurred, haul-out, survey, vessel slip insurance and third party property damage during haul-out arranged by you (unless otherwise agreed in writing) EXCEPT the brokerage commission which is paid by the vendor to the vendor's agent, again unless otherwise agreed IN WRITING.

Since this vessel is apparently listed for sale through a broker--and the broker has not searched out this vessel on your behalf (worked for you) then the current vendor of the vessel pays the commission should a sale eventuate.

At least--that is how it is in most countries. It might pay to check the law in Turkey though.

[buzzstar]

Customary ideas about who pays what are inclined to differ. It is best to make the obligations contractual (which does not mean written in legalese) to avoid conflict. BTW, how does a boat "fail" a survey? The result is in the eye of the beholders (buyer and seller) and the provider. Even objective results tend to have a subjective component. In other words, while various components of the survey may not be "good" they are not automatically a failure if anticipated. Other examples in both directions are abundant. Can't help with the escrow, but suggest you proceed with caution.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Dolphin460

I wish to add to my earlier post. Are you buying this cat to cruise, i.e. live on most, or all of the year? Cats that are not owner designed cats are very hard to sell. The secondary market doesn’t like charter configured cats. Just my opinion.

I think that's true for a small share of the market, and I would add that an owner's version will most likely command a higher price. But a charter version being hard to sell? Seriously, where do you think they all go? Up in smoke?

[Cpt Mark]

Get your own broker!!! One that has direct experience in buying a boat in Turkey, reflagging etc.

I used to search out multi million dollar yachts for clients and do all the pre-surveys. Surveyors rarely found anything I missed and I would sometimes point out items they missed. Like another poster, I have some experience and know what I'm doing.

Just bought my IP 35 Packet cat and when the selling broker wouldn't return calls etc I asked another broker if he wanted that part of the commission. His advice during the process was invaluable and FREE to me.

Buying a EU flagged vessel requires more work and due diligence as well as knowing how you want to buy it. Your own broker will guide you through this landmine phase.

[FLLCatsailor]

I would strongly recommend using a buyers broker. The commission is paid by the seller.

Just as an fyi, I am a catamaran broker but refuse to do business on boats in Turkey, Croatia, or Greece. I have done a couple of deals in that part of the world, and they were all nightmares. Language issues, horrible surveyors, poorly run yards, paperwork is a mess, etc etc.

Too many issues, and not worth the perceived "money saved." In my professional opinion.

That being said, most of my client base is either US, Canadian, or Australian. If you are in Europe, and looking for a boat in Europe it could be a good thing.

Just out of curiosity, what are you looking at making an offer on?

[riki]

Ok, first of all thanx for all the info that indeed is more than useful.
Got the advice: will definatelly get a broker, also considering that i'm not paying him.
As more than one of you suspected, yes, it's an ex charter cat: of course layout and optionals as the usuals that you get in to this type of boats, but in my cse i guess it's ok. I'll use the boat myself with family in the mediterranean; will eventually upgrade if i'll need to. Anyway, yep, ex charter so by sure will need a good surveyor, but that was already decided.
I will also have a look about the notary, wise advice: but at this point, arranging everything with my broker should be more easy than going alone.

Anyway, offer placed and answer received: seller needs some time to decide.....

[ejlindahl]

Seems like I've read in the fora that a buyers broker is not always paid out of the commission in foreign countries (you have to pay). Also if an offer has already been made (as you appear to have made) then the selling broker may not feel obligated to share his commission with a buyers broker brought into the picture after the fact. I have no experience with this so I would ask around if I were you. Still, I think finding a buyers broker; working specifically for you and paid by you via retainer and a slight commission may save you money and heartache down the road, especially overseas. Also I wonder about escrows overseas. It seems like I've heard horror stories about trying to get money back in some countries. Foreign courts, laws and attitudes are often far different than the USA. "This ain't Kansas Dorothy". There are also document services companies that will help the transaction if you continue on the diy path. Sorry I have no links or specifics on any of this just a decade of perusing the sailing forums and reading more than a few horror stories. OTOH it must work out as these boats eventually do get sold to someone, just do your research.

Best of luck.

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by riki

Ok, first of all thanx for all the info that indeed is more than useful.
Got the advice: will definatelly get a broker, also considering that i'm not paying him.
As more than one of you suspected, yes, it's an ex charter cat: of course layout and optionals as the usuals that you get in to this type of boats, but in my cse i guess it's ok. I'll use the boat myself with family in the mediterranean; will eventually upgrade if i'll need to. Anyway, yep, ex charter so by sure will need a good surveyor, but that was already decided.
I will also have a look about the notary, wise advice: but at this point, arranging everything with my broker should be more easy than going alone.

Anyway, offer placed and answer received: seller needs some time to decide.....

Hi Riki, I am in charter business in Turkey and I bought and sold many boats. Like everywhere else in the world, there are good surveyors , bad surveyors, fair brokers and terrible ones to deal with.. To answer more specifically yr questions:
-if you agreed with one broker a price, this is what you are going to pay, the rest is the problem of the seller.
-escrow accounts do not exisat in Turkey. (it does in theory but it's complicated..) You need to trust yr broker. He will keep the money for you until the boat is accepted by you.
-the buraucracy is simple than any other country I dealt with. Language also is not an issue , most brokers speak english.

What you need to do is to see the boat yrself first. Then, find a good surveyor (I can recommend you some if you like)
-you will have to make the pre sale agreement. Usualy the broker does it for you. There are various clauses in various agreements I have seen but generally speaking if the surveyor rules the boat "unseaworthy" the deal is cancelled, you get back yr money. If the survey points out some defects, you may rebargain the price or ask the seller to remedy these defects.
-then the broker will prepare the Bill of sales. This has to be done in notary public and be approved by the harbour master.
-if you are going to change the flag, then the seller should deflag the boat and in 1 months you need to assign a new flag to yr boat.
When all this is done the seller gets his money.
Concerning the expenses; again as a general rule, if you want to haul out/launch the boat, you pay for it. The survey also is paid by you, reagrdless the result of the survey. The notary, approvals, etc are not a big deal and normally the broker does and pay forit. If the boat has no marina contract, then until the boat is accepted and deal is closed, the seller pay for it.

Hope this helps, if not PM me

Cheers

Yeloya

[Heath68]

Sorry if this is a little off topic but does all this happen still if you're buying new?