44 Helia "sunk" in the Atlantic

[flee27]

Any vessel can sink/fill up with water. I don't know but would curious, what is the percentage of production built catamarans that sink/fill with water compared to customer/high end boats. It would seem there is a much larger number of production boats compared to custom build/highend boats, thus, those would have a higher number of issues. Many more Honda Accords are totaled then Bentley Sedans. This doesn't mean the Accords are built poorly. Just a factor of the numbers produced.

Just makes me think are the "lower end" production boats really a danger for 99.9% of the time. Like someone referenced earlier we are all crazy to go out in the ocean in a boat. It is an environment that we aren't made for and we are hugely compromised in. So any boat is a false security if worse comes to worse. I am not implying a poorly built boat is OK and that we shouldn't require a certain level of build quality if we are going out of site of land or in harsh environments. But there is not a full proof boat so what is safe enough?

[tiopirata]

Not true, not any vessel can fill up with water. It's possible to buy vessels today, new, where that can't happen. I remember my apprentice failing to close hatches on a GBE of mine 30 years ago and heavy rain filled the hulls to half height. I simply augured a small hole midships in each hull and watched it rise to within 1" of normal marks. Any multihull that can't perform to a similar standard is, in my opinion, rubbish.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Franziska

What a nightmare. I hope they could afford insurance.

Hard to imagine that any marine insurance company would insure a several hundred thousand dollar boat without a survey. I'd suppose - no survey (as stated above), no insurance.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by tiopirata

Not true, not any vessel can fill up with water. It's possible to buy vessels today, new, where that can't happen. I remember my apprentice failing to close hatches on a GBE of mine 30 years ago and heavy rain filled the hulls to half height. I simply augured a small hole midships in each hull and watched it rise to within 1" of normal marks. Any multihull that can't perform to a similar standard is, in my opinion, rubbish.

Then I guess you have to stick to small open bridgedeck cats like the GBE.
And next time you flood it get a pump :-)

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

Hard to imagine that any marine insurance company would insure a several hundred thousand dollar boat without a survey. I'd suppose - no survey (as stated above), no insurance.

and you are wrong.


Nobody has ever asked me for a survey and all my boats had insurance.
I had offers on the table by several large insurers and none ever asked for a survey.

[Snore]

Seems like a sound argument for a crash blanket or boards. Then again, without knowing how fast it was coming in, don’t know if that would have saved her.

Anyone know the maintenance schedule on those escap hatches?

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Snore

Anyone know the maintenance schedule on those escap hatches?

No, not me. And, it's nothing I even want to think about when I'm far offshore in heavy seas. I've seen many photos of damaged multihulls. Not impressed with the construction. As for monohulls, a rabbi once asked my Jewish friend "Do you have insurance?" My friend replied, "Yes, rabbi, but don't worry, Hinckley guarantees their hulls and decks for life." The rabbi quipped, "Good job, my son. I've taught you well. In life, you get what you pay for."

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

No, not me. And, it's nothing I even want to think about when I'm far offshore in heavy seas. I've seen many photos of damaged multihulls. Not impressed with the construction. As for monohulls, a rabbi once asked my Jewish friend "Do you have insurance?" My friend replied, "Yes, rabbi, but don't worry, Hinckley guarantees their hulls and decks for life." The rabbi quipped, "Good job, my son. I've taught you well. In life, you get what you pay for."

Whatever you say. Welcome to my ignore list!

Life is too short for this.

[tiopirata]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Then I guess you have to stick to small open bridgedeck cats like the GBE.
And next time you flood it get a pump :-)

I remind you that the GBE was one of 7, but all could perform similarly. Trimarans and catamarans. It's not rocket science. It's just good design and good construction. I am a yacht surveyor, designer and builder, also a structural engineer, I can tell you what is possible with some certainty of fact. I can also tell you, with equal certainty, that the best multihulls out there are not stock boats from a large scale manufacture.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by tiopirata

I remind you that the GBE was one of 7, but all could perform similarly. Trimarans and catamarans. It's not rocket science. It's just good design and good construction. I am a yacht surveyor, designer and builder, also a structural engineer, I can tell you what is possible with some certainty of fact. I can also tell you, with equal certainty, that the best multihulls out there are not stock boats from a large scale manufacture.

of course impossible is nothing.
does it make sense for a normal yacht ? up to the buyer to decide.


Of course the best boats don't come from large scale manufacturers. But the most successful ones (commercial success that is).

Maybe you can give an example of two or three large cruising cats on the market today that stay high and dry when punctured?

[smj]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

No, not me. And, it's nothing I even want to think about when I'm far offshore in heavy seas. I've seen many photos of damaged multihulls. Not impressed with the construction. As for monohulls, a rabbi once asked my Jewish friend "Do you have insurance?" My friend replied, "Yes, rabbi, but don't worry, Hinckley guarantees their hulls and decks for life." The rabbi quipped, "Good job, my son. I've taught you well. In life, you get what you pay for."

Hinckley guarantees their hulls and decks for life but strongly recommends you have annual service done at Hinckley otherwise the warranty is only for 5 years.
Always a little catch in something that’s to good to be true. Plenty of other exclusions as well.

[Snore]

Regarding maintenance... ...

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

it's nothing I even want to think about when I'm far offshore in heavy seas.

Yup. Try having that in your head doing a delivery on an older cat! But curious—

[Rohan]

OK, I have a little experience with cats but no experience with a sinking boat.

I don't understand how this could be a total loss. So someone tell me why this wouldn't work:

If the boat suffered a puncture near the engine compartment, then fill that hole with an emergency expanding foam plug. If it was a hatch failure, then swim underwater and close the hatch. Then pump/bail out the remaining water (with buckets if necessary). Then return to port using the remaining engine, or the sails if no engine at all. Would take time and wouldn't be easy, but certainly better than losing one's life savings at sea.

Or, maybe they chartered the boat and had insurance so they didn't care?

[Tornadosailing]

Swim under the boat in rough seas at 3am? Short of eating a bullet, I'm not sure I can think of a faster way to kill yourself.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Rohan

OK, I have a little experience with cats but no experience with a sinking boat.

I don't understand how this could be a total loss. So someone tell me why this wouldn't work:

If the boat suffered a puncture near the engine compartment, then fill that hole with an emergency expanding foam plug. If it was a hatch failure, then swim underwater and close the hatch. Then pump/bail out the remaining water (with buckets if necessary). Then return to port using the remaining engine, or the sails if no engine at all. Would take time and wouldn't be easy, but certainly better than losing one's life savings at sea.

Or, maybe they chartered the boat and had insurance so they didn't care?

Did you read the linked and translated story? If not, do so first then return to edit your comment.

Despite the headline, we don’t know whether the boat sank or not. The photo of the rescue showed it floating and likely stable in that position, bows high and underwater from the mast aft. It could probably be towed in that position.

We don’t know exactly what happened, but it seems that one of the escape hatches failed, likely by loosing its lens. The skipper (owner?) tried to plug the gap with a salon cushion but it was sucked out, so that implies a large opening, not just a hatch that came open, though that’s possible as well.

Insurance or not, I don’t think anyway just shrugs their shoulders and doesn’t fight to save their boat if they’re capable. Though we have heard on this forum of some seemingly frivolous abandons in recent history.

Regarding escape hatches, they’re typically regular hatches that happen to be (not less than) 20cm above the static waterline. On our boat the hulls and hatches are near vertical, though I’ve seen many cats where the hatches are much nearer to horizontal (I don’t know about the Hellia). While sailing in flat seas water will splash in if our escape hatches are open - and it makes a fair bit of strange noise when you’re in the hull. If there are any seas the leeward hatch will be frequently washed by solid water.

Regular hatch maintenance is what? Checking and lubricating the dogs and seals and checking the condition of the lens and its mounting. Unfortunately the hatch is most easily checked from outside when hauled out, otherwise while swimming or from a dinghy if you have enough bridgedeck clearance. I know I’m certainly going to take a good look at the outside of our two escape hatches now.

The requirement is for cats to float near horizontal when inverted - there’s no rule AFAIK that they should float relatively level when flooded and upright. As others have noted, even if you have separate engine rooms aft that are sealed off from the main hull, all the perforations for electrical cabling, fuel lines, throttle cables, steering cables/hoses and whatever else goes through that bulkhead. Usually these perforations will be relatively high up, but that won’t help too much in waves and with surging seas and water. Our boat, and likely others, has got a sealed compartment at the extreme aft end of each hull, but I’m sure it’s less than half the size of the forward crash compartment and won’t be enough to counter the weight of the engines.