40ft Catamaran Owners Please

[Cheechako]

New or used? Budget? Older boat that may be somewhat of a project?(arent they all?)
For an older boat, I highly recommend the older Lagoon 42 built by TPI.

*Con: If it had the Marelon seacocks you will likely need to replace those.
*Pro: Cored above the water, not below. TPI glasswork is perfection.
*Pro: Thru hull shaft drive , not sailddrive.
*Con: The headliner is foam backed, the foam deteriorates, eventualy you have to replace the headliner or pull it down and take the crumbling foam off and reglue it.
*Pro: most had built in davits.
*Pro: Great load carrying capacity, protected helm, good visibility.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Fresh Salt

The mast clearance is something I noticed also, here is another vid by the same guy who quite skillfully avoids a clear look at the boom clearance for the most part, with a short glimpse at 2:45 where it seems ample, then again at 14:13 you get a view that seems to indicate it is very low assuming that the cameraman is at the helm station and not purposely elevated to get his shot.

At the 14:13 point you are talking about in the video, the main sail isn't even up. The boom is controlled by the topping lift (no boom vang), adjust to your hearts desire.

Also, I wouldn't expect any catamaran to experience bd pounding with the sea state in the video. Pounding happens when you going to wind and have significant waves.

[Fresh Salt]

Originally Posted by FLLCatsailor

Dave,

Most sellers won't do a sea trial unless a sale price and deposit are in place (ie a contract). Some boat owners may agree to take you out on a test sail, but very rare. It's standard for a contract to be "pending survey, sea trial, and personal inspection."

In terms of going out on demo sails on new boats, some manufactures do demo days, and demo sales for clients they feel qualified to buy a new boat.

It's a bit unfortunate that it is this way, but it is what it is.

Chartering is really the best way to get out and sail a bunch of different models of boats. You can also try to offer your services for crew on a delivery which is a great way to gain time on all different types of yachts.

I've been fortunate to have delivered a ton of different cats over 1000's of miles to form an opinion on what works for me personally in a catamaran.

I guess I'd better prepare myself for a bit of chartering, luckily that isn't too much of a painful prospect.

Originally Posted by Cheechako

New or used? Budget? Older boat that may be somewhat of a project?(arent they all?)
For an older boat, I highly recommend the older Lagoon 42 built by TPI.

*Con: If it had the Marelon seacocks you will likely need to replace those.
*Pro: Cored above the water, not below. TPI glasswork is perfection.
*Pro: Thru hull shaft drive , not sailddrive.
*Con: The headliner is foam backed, the foam deteriorates, eventualy you have to replace the headliner or pull it down and take the crumbling foam off and reglue it.
*Pro: most had built in davits.
*Pro: Great load carrying capacity, protected helm, good visibility.

Thank you for your input, its great to get such direct and to the point info to add to my rather quickly expanding list of things to consider and further research.

I’m leaning toward a new vessel as I won’t have permanent residential address come July and I imagine such a project could take quite some time. I am however not ruling out the option as there are quite a few older vessels creeping into contention.

Originally Posted by DotDun

At the 14:13 point you are talking about in the video, the main sail isn't even up. The boom is controlled by the topping lift (no boom vang), adjust to your hearts desire.

Also, I wouldn't expect any catamaran to experience bd pounding with the sea state in the video. Pounding happens when you going to wind and have significant waves.

Yet another blatant example of exactly how green I am, thanks for pointing that out that clears up my confussion with that clip.


The BDC related video was one I posted earlier in the thread with the second half of it showing reported 30 knot head-seas of 3 meters at 45 degrees apparent. Linked below.

Bridgedeck Clearance - Fountaine Pajot Lavezzi 40 - YouTube

As mentioned earlier by Kita, everyone is proving to be a great help, it is much appreciated.

[FLLCatsailor]

Chartering is also a great way to get a feel for living on a boat. It will really help you solidify moving aboard as a way of life.

[ArtM]

I don't think you'll be able to maintain a purely abstract position.

Each of the catamaran models in that size range have distinctly different strengths and weaknesses. Some are better at anchor like floating condos, others are designed for better performance at sea. Some have extensive luxuries, others are very plain.

The more features and capabilities you request, the higher the price will go. Some of the best catamarans of the past are no longer built and are available only as old, used boats. Many of the best catamarans of today have only been around for a short time, and are only available as relatively new, higher priced boats.

[CatTraveler]

Originally Posted by ArtM

I don't think you'll be able to maintain a purely abstract position.

Each of the catamaran models in that size range have distinctly different strengths and weaknesses. Some are better at anchor like floating condos, others are designed for better performance at sea. Some have extensive luxuries, others are very plain.

The more features and capabilities you request, the higher the price will go. Some of the best catamarans of the past are no longer built and are available only as old, used boats. Many of the best catamarans of today have only been around for a short time, and are only available as relatively new, higher priced boats.

Great comment!

I'm very happy with my Nautitech 395, we sail from Croatia to Brasil and now in the Caribbean (Tobago Cays tonigth!). Strong, confortable, sails good.

I think it's important in Cats how much weight you can carry. Cruising life needs water, diesel, food, spares, ...

[contrail]

Whatever you do, make sure you are comfortable with how you will sleep and cook and stow stuff. And this can vary quite a bit even within individual manufacturers.

Be sure you know where you will moor the boat and haul it, until you get to take off.

The best place to see lots and lots of cats is in the BVI. But, no, you won't be able to take one out for a test ride, unless you charter it or have a contract to buy.

Much of what you read has been written by folks who are just passing on what they have read. Or maybe they have sailed a boat but are guilty of, dare I say it, operator error! So, take almost anything with a grain of salt.

Talk to maintenance people at charter companies. Some are remarkably candid, particularly if they have more than one manufacturer, which almost all the second tier companies do.

How badly a cat pounds can depend upon many things, but one is how straight into the winds and waves you are headed. Any sailboat can be made to pound by motoring dead into it, and that is what many charterers do. Motor or sail a boat at a sailing angle and see how it does, since that is what it is designed to do.

How easy it is to singlehand a boat, really singlehanding it (in other words, everything from anchoring to docking to sailing, etc. etc., without an accomplice that can be awoken when necessary), may depend a great deal on the experience and creativity of the sailor, and on any clever mods, rather than on the general design, but there are things that make it easier or more difficult.

If you ever think you might do the ICW, the mast clearance you need to check out is the masthead. You will need to go under bridges that are around 65 feet.

Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance. Check out how easy it will be to do the routine jobs, and the occasional jobs like replacing tanks, engines, etc. etc.

Now, some subjective opinions. I have done one trip on a Gunboat. Fast, but what surprised me was the great ride. Truly the top of the line, with price to match. i have done a couple of thousand miles on an F/P 60, half of it in really rough conditions, and it was the noisest (inside) flexy boat I have ever been on. You could feel the overhead moving. You couldn't put a finger behind the nav station, because that moved back and forth against the side. Everything creaked and groaned and crunched inside. Now, all of that said, and I am no lover of F/P's, some boats are, indeed designed to flex quite a bit, and that boat took everything the sea threw at it. No damage, no stress cracks, nothing. I am still amazed, and could never stand the noise, but it was much stronger than I would have given it credit for being.

My own boat is, yes, a good old Leopard 45, 1999 model, which I have owned and lived aboard since 2004, and run in the crewed charter business since 2005. And, I am biased. She has straight drives and sacrificial keels, skegs in front of both the props and rudders, and is built like a tank. She sill looks great, doesn't flex, doesn't groan, isn't riddled with hairline cracks. And she works for her living, very hard. Every single bit of equipment, from engines to tanks to mast, etc. can be removed and replaced in a day. To maintain almost any thing, you just sit down and do it, you don't struggle just to get to a spot where you CAN do it. The secondary and tertiary charter fleets down here are full of Leopards in pretty good shape for the simple reason that their reputation is impeccable among those who know them best. Oh, and they have been delivered to charter fleets around the world, almost all on their own bottoms, which counts for something. Mine has done 12 years of charter, and still is in great cosmetic, structural and mechanical shape.

How do the Leopard's sail? Well, the L45 goes by just about everything its size and a bit bigger, including the Melvin Morelli's, at least the ones that were beefed up sufficiently to take the beating in charter. The L45 is very nimble and I truly single hand her, tacking and gybing without any difficulty. Worst thing is raising anchor in a shallow anchorage, of all things, because the anchor comes up well back of the bow, so windage and sheering around over the chain become a factor.

Does she pound. Yep, and maybe a wee bit more than I would like, but not badly. Then again, I know better than to drive her as hard as possible straight into the winds and waves. And then, most anything will pound. The thing about bridge deck clearance is that it is a compromise of three things...windage, headroom and bridgedeck clearance. The L45 has massive headroom and really manageable windage, which makes her sail better upwind than a boat that is higher off the water. You can't have all three things. I would gladly give up three inches of headroom for a bit more clearance, but I would hate to increase the windage. The compromise on the L45 is actually pretty good, which is why it has been such a great boat for the charter fleets.

I am based in the BVI. But we've been up to the Chesapeake and back twice, everything from a direct shot to island hopping to down the ICW, with mast down. Biggest wind, underway has been in the low 50's, once with the full main up, but jib furled. That went on for about two hours, and we handled it just fine. Jet Stream still continues to please and exceed expectations at age 14. There is a reason that the Leopards have been so successful in the toughest charter conditions. And the old ones were built as good as they come.

Let's talk Balsa. Every core has its negatives. With Balsa, you have to make sure that the hull stays water tight. But, there are lots of solid areas through which to put thru-hulls, and the stems are incredibly thick, solid glass, and it goes back far enough to suffer a pretty good hole. Don't ask. Balsa, done well, is a perfectly reasonable core. The great Canadian boat builder, C&C, did it for decades. J-boats, as in J-24, etc. etc, did it, if I am not mistaken. Others as well, long before Robertson and Caine. Balsa has many more advantages as it has disadvantages, and I am not talking just price. Every core is a compromise, but would a charter company invite itself to maintain a nightmare? People will say something about "charter boats only work for five years, and then they are trash." In the real charter world, the good models then work their way down the food chain of secondary and tertiary charter companies. Or maybe they are run in private charter, as I do with mine. Makes no difference. Time and maintenance are money, so we don't run potentially bad boats. And you won't see any more cats out there in the charter fleets than you will see Leopards. OK, that's because that is all Sunsail or Moorings use. But the secondary and tertiary companies can choose, and they do.

Anyway, as you can see, I am a highly biased, and highly happy L45 owner of considerable time and experience. You might enjoy some of the things I have written about Leopards under this name, and also under my real user name, which is Tim Schaaf. It is opinion, but it is based upon sailing tens of thousands of Leopard miles, under many conditions, and matching up against many competitors.

Will you find people that could not manage the pounding? You will. Will you find the very occasional example of balsa delamination. You will, and it will be from abuse. But, keep your mind open and really check out all your candidates...you will have a blast!

Best of luck in your choice....and look, look, look and make up your own mind. You only get to do it once, if you do it right!

Cheers,
Tim

[Kita]

I also looked at an add for a Lagoon 400 that I like but a little out of my price range, but the layout is great, galley up with a salon that you could cat nap on instead of a round one. The other thing someone said was on the salon windows on an angle transfers heat into the salon & Lagoon went with windows that are vertical & kinda shaded from the top, makes for better view & it has got to be cooler & vented better,for one or two people I sure do like that 380 owners model, if it was shaft drive I would call it perfect but like I said before,there is no perfect boat, I will deal with the saildrive as much as I don`t want to. I wonder if the 380 has enough storage for everything I want to carry & space for genset, I plan on being on the hook alot.

[FLLCatsailor]

Couldn't agree more on Contrail's comments on balsa coring... Never had an issue with a balsa cored hull when managing a fleet of Leopard's... Balsa core is also MUCH easier to repair in the event of any underwater damage...

[Fiveslide]

Originally Posted by Fresh Salt

The BDC related video was one I posted earlier in the thread with the second half of it showing reported 30 knot head-seas of 3 meters at 45 degrees apparent. Linked below.

I just stepped off a Lavezzi I helped deliver, so that sail is still quite fresh in my mind.

You can't see, hear or feel the bridgedeck slam from either of the positions that video was taken. But try to eat dinner on the table in the salon. That is where all that energy and force go when it happens. I once saw my sandwich jump a foot off the table in very similar conditions. It was annoying, nothing more.

For me, going to weather on a catamaran is just as uncomfortable as going to weather on any other boat. But that boat gets very comfortable on other points of sail.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by Kita

I also looked at an add for a Lagoon 400 that I like but a little out of my price range, but the layout is great, galley up with a salon that you could cat nap on instead of a round one. The other thing someone said was on the salon windows on an angle transfers heat into the salon & Lagoon went with windows that are vertical & kinda shaded from the top, makes for better view & it has got to be cooler & vented better,for one or two people I sure do like that 380 owners model, if it was shaft drive I would call it perfect but like I said before,there is no perfect boat, I will deal with the saildrive as much as I don`t want to. I wonder if the 380 has enough storage for everything I want to carry & space for genset, I plan on being on the hook alot.

The newest leopards have adopted all of these features, and added some higher-quality features. I now prefer them to the Lagoons, based on my showroom experience.

[Fresh Salt]

Originally Posted by ArtM

I don't think you'll be able to maintain a purely abstract position.

Each of the catamaran models in that size range have distinctly different strengths and weaknesses. Some are better at anchor like floating condos, others are designed for better performance at sea. Some have extensive luxuries, others are very plain.

The more features and capabilities you request, the higher the price will go. Some of the best catamarans of the past are no longer built and are available only as old, used boats. Many of the best catamarans of today have only been around for a short time, and are only available as relatively new, higher priced boats.

Over the span of this thread and the others I have read that relate to some of my questions, it is clear that I am dealing with two distinct animals (condo vs bluewater) that are inadvertently joined at the hip so to speak. And due to what my requirements are the trick is going to be finding the balance that ultimately addresses my needs and tolerances.

Originally Posted by CatTraveler

Great comment!

I'm very happy with my Nautitech 395, we sail from Croatia to Brasil and now in the Caribbean (Tobago Cays tonigth!). Strong, confortable, sails good.

I think it's important in Cats how much weight you can carry. Cruising life needs water, diesel, food, spares, ...

One of the issues you and others have mentioned and one that I originally overlooked is Carrying Capacity and it certainly warrants being included in my “base” criteria which I will repost after this. – Thank You

Originally Posted by contrail

Whatever you do, make sure you are comfortable with how you will sleep and cook and stow stuff. And this can vary quite a bit even within individual manufacturers.

Be sure you know where you will moor the boat and haul it, until you get to take off.

The best place to see lots and lots of cats is in the BVI. But, no, you won't be able to take one out for a test ride, unless you charter it or have a contract to buy.

Much of what you read has been written by folks who are just passing on what they have read. Or maybe they have sailed a boat but are guilty of, dare I say it, operator error! So, take almost anything with a grain of salt.

Talk to maintenance people at charter companies. Some are remarkably candid, particularly if they have more than one manufacturer, which almost all the second tier companies do.

How badly a cat pounds can depend upon many things, but one is how straight into the winds and waves you are headed. Any sailboat can be made to pound by motoring dead into it, and that is what many charterers do. Motor or sail a boat at a sailing angle and see how it does, since that is what it is designed to do.

How easy it is to singlehand a boat, really singlehanding it (in other words, everything from anchoring to docking to sailing, etc. etc., without an accomplice that can be awoken when necessary), may depend a great deal on the experience and creativity of the sailor, and on any clever mods, rather than on the general design, but there are things that make it easier or more difficult.

If you ever think you might do the ICW, the mast clearance you need to check out is the masthead. You will need to go under bridges that are around 65 feet.

Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance. Check out how easy it will be to do the routine jobs, and the occasional jobs like replacing tanks, engines, etc. etc.

Now, some subjective opinions. I have done one trip on a Gunboat. Fast, but what surprised me was the great ride. Truly the top of the line, with price to match. i have done a couple of thousand miles on an F/P 60, half of it in really rough conditions, and it was the noisest (inside) flexy boat I have ever been on. You could feel the overhead moving. You couldn't put a finger behind the nav station, because that moved back and forth against the side. Everything creaked and groaned and crunched inside. Now, all of that said, and I am no lover of F/P's, some boats are, indeed designed to flex quite a bit, and that boat took everything the sea threw at it. No damage, no stress cracks, nothing. I am still amazed, and could never stand the noise, but it was much stronger than I would have given it credit for being.

My own boat is, yes, a good old Leopard 45, 1999 model, which I have owned and lived aboard since 2004, and run in the crewed charter business since 2005. And, I am biased. She has straight drives and sacrificial keels, skegs in front of both the props and rudders, and is built like a tank. She sill looks great, doesn't flex, doesn't groan, isn't riddled with hairline cracks. And she works for her living, very hard. Every single bit of equipment, from engines to tanks to mast, etc. can be removed and replaced in a day. To maintain almost any thing, you just sit down and do it, you don't struggle just to get to a spot where you CAN do it. The secondary and tertiary charter fleets down here are full of Leopards in pretty good shape for the simple reason that their reputation is impeccable among those who know them best. Oh, and they have been delivered to charter fleets around the world, almost all on their own bottoms, which counts for something. Mine has done 12 years of charter, and still is in great cosmetic, structural and mechanical shape.

How do the Leopard's sail? Well, the L45 goes by just about everything its size and a bit bigger, including the Melvin Morelli's, at least the ones that were beefed up sufficiently to take the beating in charter. The L45 is very nimble and I truly single hand her, tacking and gybing without any difficulty. Worst thing is raising anchor in a shallow anchorage, of all things, because the anchor comes up well back of the bow, so windage and sheering around over the chain become a factor.

Does she pound. Yep, and maybe a wee bit more than I would like, but not badly. Then again, I know better than to drive her as hard as possible straight into the winds and waves. And then, most anything will pound. The thing about bridge deck clearance is that it is a compromise of three things...windage, headroom and bridgedeck clearance. The L45 has massive headroom and really manageable windage, which makes her sail better upwind than a boat that is higher off the water. You can't have all three things. I would gladly give up three inches of headroom for a bit more clearance, but I would hate to increase the windage. The compromise on the L45 is actually pretty good, which is why it has been such a great boat for the charter fleets.

I am based in the BVI. But we've been up to the Chesapeake and back twice, everything from a direct shot to island hopping to down the ICW, with mast down. Biggest wind, underway has been in the low 50's, once with the full main up, but jib furled. That went on for about two hours, and we handled it just fine. Jet Stream still continues to please and exceed expectations at age 14. There is a reason that the Leopards have been so successful in the toughest charter conditions. And the old ones were built as good as they come.

Let's talk Balsa. Every core has its negatives. With Balsa, you have to make sure that the hull stays water tight. But, there are lots of solid areas through which to put thru-hulls, and the stems are incredibly thick, solid glass, and it goes back far enough to suffer a pretty good hole. Don't ask. Balsa, done well, is a perfectly reasonable core. The great Canadian boat builder, C&C, did it for decades. J-boats, as in J-24, etc. etc, did it, if I am not mistaken. Others as well, long before Robertson and Caine. Balsa has many more advantages as it has disadvantages, and I am not talking just price. Every core is a compromise, but would a charter company invite itself to maintain a nightmare? People will say something about "charter boats only work for five years, and then they are trash." In the real charter world, the good models then work their way down the food chain of secondary and tertiary charter companies. Or maybe they are run in private charter, as I do with mine. Makes no difference. Time and maintenance are money, so we don't run potentially bad boats. And you won't see any more cats out there in the charter fleets than you will see Leopards. OK, that's because that is all Sunsail or Moorings use. But the secondary and tertiary companies can choose, and they do.

Anyway, as you can see, I am a highly biased, and highly happy L45 owner of considerable time and experience. You might enjoy some of the things I have written about Leopards under this name, and also under my real user name, which is Tim Schaaf. It is opinion, but it is based upon sailing tens of thousands of Leopard miles, under many conditions, and matching up against many competitors.

Will you find people that could not manage the pounding? You will. Will you find the very occasional example of balsa delamination. You will, and it will be from abuse. But, keep your mind open and really check out all your candidates...you will have a blast!

Best of luck in your choice....and look, look, look and make up your own mind. You only get to do it once, if you do it right!

Cheers,
Tim

I have a salt shaker close at hand, not that I mistrust any information that folks here have been so kind to impart, rather that the issues at hand are so complex and that the answers I request are clearly not as cut and dried as they may appear at first.

You have also raised a point that stands out among others that I find must make its way on to my list of primary considerations, that being the accessibility / ease of maintenance – duly added with thanks.

Of particular interest is your take on the FP 60 you were on, and this would be an easy choice for me were it ever to become the deciding factor on whether to purchase a particular vessel or not. I would gladly live with that noise during bad weather to have the boat and myself come out unscathed on the other side.

I will be taking a hard look at the leopard models, after having formed an opinion mostly leaning to the negative; I have over the course of this thread been given enough reasons to not count them out just yet. The “truly single-handed” being a must have.

Biased opinions are more than welcome, I’d be skeptical of anyone owning and operating a boat for such a long time who was not passionate about it.

Originally Posted by Kita

I also looked at an add for a Lagoon 400 that I like but a little out of my price range, but the layout is great, galley up with a salon that you could cat nap on instead of a round one. The other thing someone said was on the salon windows on an angle transfers heat into the salon & Lagoon went with windows that are vertical & kinda shaded from the top, makes for better view & it has got to be cooler & vented better,for one or two people I sure do like that 380 owners model, if it was shaft drive I would call it perfect but like I said before,there is no perfect boat, I will deal with the saildrive as much as I don`t want to. I wonder if the 380 has enough storage for everything I want to carry & space for genset, I plan on being on the hook alot.

Another point initially overlooked on my part, ventilation. I imagine this single consideration goes a long way toward overall livability.

Originally Posted by FLLCatsailor

Couldn't agree more on Contrail's comments on balsa coring... Never had an issue with a balsa cored hull when managing a fleet of Leopard's... Balsa core is also MUCH easier to repair in the event of any underwater damage...

I am unfortunately far to green to have a well founded opinion on construction materials, though as to what I’ve read on the subject, I would hazard to say balsa below the waterline sounds like a negative to be avoided in all but vessels of the highest build quality.

Again here, real world experience can’t be beaten, and practical considerations would certainly trump armchair opinion.

Originally Posted by Fiveslide

I just stepped off a Lavezzi I helped deliver, so that sail is still quite fresh in my mind.

You can't see, hear or feel the bridgedeck slam from either of the positions that video was taken. But try to eat dinner on the table in the salon. That is where all that energy and force go when it happens. I once saw my sandwich jump a foot off the table in very similar conditions. It was annoying, nothing more.

For me, going to weather on a catamaran is just as uncomfortable as going to weather on any other boat. But that boat gets very comfortable on other points of sail.

Thanks for you comment on that vid, all is not as it as first seems, is becoming quite the recurring theme.

Dave

[monte]

Kita, yes the 400 is nice and very similar to the 380 in terms of space and storage. We live on board our 380 owners version and have a lot of space to spare with lots of empty cupboards and empty under berth spaces as well. Both can accomodate gensets but we haven't found the need for one with adequate solar (540w), wind gen and watermaker we can live off the hook indefinately.
We were on board the new 400 yesterday and although its very nice we didn't have the feeling we need to upgrade at all. The 400 is a lot wider and higher than the 380, over 1m wider, and the flush decks bring the freeboard upanother 200-300mm.
One benifit of the 400 is that it is still under 12m so it costs the same in marinas as the 380. When you go over 12 m expect to pay another 30% approx.
internally the spaces are similar, the saloon slightly larger on the 400, but the port cabins and clothes storage quite a bit smaller. Theres hardly room to get dressed in the port cabins with the door closed. Lots of other differences but in my opinion either one would be great for liveaboard/world cruising.

[Fresh Salt]

A Huge Thank You, to everyone for their opinions and input so far.

I have somewhat revised my initial list to include things I initially overlooked. Of the multitude of considerations, these are the ones of paramount importance to me at this stage.

1. True Solo Sail Ability
2. Heavy Weather Safety / Survivability / Comfort
3. Carrying Capacity
3. General Build Quality / Durability
4. Ease of Maintenance
5. Performance Both Under Sail and while Motoring
6. Natural Ventilation / general livability

In short summary of previous posts; there seems to be no substitute for getting out on various boats and drawing first hand conclusions.

However the wealth of experience to be found here will no doubt far better equip folks like myself to make better and more educated evaluations and decisions once we actually get out on the water and eventually make a purchase.

Any further make/model specific feedback on the above list would be most welcome.


Dave

[Kita]

Love that 380 & very nice to hear someone is happy with one after they have had it for a while.. Now, Leopards, wow I really like the way you can walk across the back of the boat cause that is where alot of the action for me will take place (fishing & other things) BUT, I can`t get over the balsa core below the waterline. Now I know the way these are built may even be lighter & maybe good for what most everyone wants but for me (rookie) saying I am going to ride that baby around the world & live on it for years to come & never bump into anything is a bit unrealistic & I am sure that once damage is done & water gets in there that balsa core has got to be much more money to fix & water will wick along through the inside of the hull & a small hole like from a reef bump or a leaking fitting ( nothing major just a poke) would result in major work, & on top of that structural integrity could be a problem.. Balsa core hull is great if you don`t crack the egg, but if you do it will cost.. Glass hull for me fits the KISS method, keep it simple silly. Please keep in mind I am no expert in balsa core stuff, just have done alot of research & have played alot with smaller boats.. something to think about, can you say I will NEVER hit or bump into something?? Does that sound cocky? I wish I was that sure. Glass I can fix, I would not feel good about fixing a balsa core,I would always wonder if I got it right & out there is no place to find out you didn`t get it right. To all the old salts, am I wrong???