2021 purchasing an Irma-damaged cat

[Katabolic]

I’m shopping for a production catamaran a few years used. Any tips on assessing the impact to price and resale of repaired Irma damage?
I found a boat which suffered port hull damage and flooded up a couple feet into the port hull. Hull repaired and looks good. Some water stains in the trim. The flooring was cut out to replace the port fuel tank (OEM tank). Port door and panel laminates replaced with white instead of original wood laminate and there is now some quarter-round trim at the floor. Electricals and stern AC replaced. I haven’t seen records of repairs but it looks like decent work. The boat is in charter service so seems to be holding up to regular thorough use.
So, cosmetic issues and storm damage history. 4-cabin boat in charter service. What danger signs should I check? How hard would this be to re-sell?

Thanks!

More notes:
- engine compartment stayed dry, was not affected
- port stern was pierced near the waterline apparently by dock edge / planks
- reportedly the flooding was caught and pumped out same day as it happened

[tkeithlu]

It will be just as difficult to resell as it is to sell to you now.

This is a job for a surveyor. I think your concerns are largely hidden structural damage, plus perhps immersion damage in the cabin.

Starting point. How was that stern damage repaired? Are there added layers of fiberglass cloth on the inside, or was it done by smoothing the outside and adding Bondo? Ouch.

What's under that replaced laminate? Delaminated plywood? Another ouch.

Why was that tank removed, and what was under it? Is there any indication that the keel on the port side took a hit? Is there repair work around the keel on the outside? If so, another ouch.

Wiring replaced, but all of it? Any salt water corrosion, messy looking connections?

So, I'm thinking that you may be onto a gem, but proceed with caution. Get a pro surveyor, share your potential concerns, and have the surveyor look for literal coverups.

Repair may have been motivated by honest desire to return the boat to original quality, or may have been motivated by the need to get it back into charter service quickly, with selling it before serious problems occur planned.

[Katabolic]

Thanks! I had a surveyor do a pre-survey inspection but you’re right this is going to require a deeper look by a pro.
I wrestling with what price to make an offer, ahead of paying a surveyor. I guess I need to take the plunge on an amount assuming it’s an undocumented gem and then sort it out after a survey.

[SVQuestOfPaget]

I second everything Tkeithlu said in their post. I spent a couple seasons working on charter boats in the BVI and Leeward Islands, and from my experience (2011 and 12), I saw both well-done repairs and awful repairs. Seemed at the time that the newer boats got better attention, as they're the ones bringing in more income - still, they're in service for a few years before being sold on to someone else, so there's not as much incentive to do a first rate life-long repair or give as much attention as an owner might.

I would be skeptical of the seller's note about only being flooded for a short time. After Irma, there were hundreds of half submerged charter vessels throughout the region, and my understanding is that many stayed that way for some time. That's not to say they can't or haven't been successfully cleaned and repaired, but I'd approach a boat like this anticipating the worst case scenario, and then be pleasantly surprised if the damage is minimal. Not trying to be a downer, I've just seen too many people get surprised by hidden damages later.

There are many topics about buying and repairing hurricane damaged boats with good advice in the search archives. Good luck with the inspection!

[Katabolic]

I hear you about the duration of the flooding - I wonder how long the water was in the port hull a as well. The fuel tank was replaced just a year ago, related to putting issues. I wonder if it got as bad as developing a leak, otherwise how would that have been discovered? Also I was told the new one has been offset or spaced higher to stay out of water in that bilge.

[Sand crab]

Is that a balsa core boat? Did the balsa get wet? And how would you ever really know? Have you seen the Parleys Revival vids?

[Katabolic]

Great point about possible issues with water getting into the hull core. Fortunately this particular boat is closed cell foam core.

I know about moisture testing hulls and decks and that they have limits. In this case I’m more concerned about how well systems within that port hull can be inspected for damage and for repair quality and status... wiring, corrosion, under that new fuel tank and so on.
Do surveyors have cameras/lights on poles or snakes? What level of magic can they perform?

[gonesail]

Unless you were there it will be difficult to asess whether the repairs were done to spec. For instance the fuel tank. Even a surveyor will be hesitant to tell you to buy the boat. Rightfully so. It's a risk and maybe an expensive one.

[ohdrinkboy]

go over to youtube and look at some of the recent videos from barefoot sail and dive. they are repairing a hurricane damaged cat.

[CarlF]

Is it in active charter now? That's a very good sign.

The "happy talk" you're being given would suggest the boat wasn't flooded deeply or for long. In that case the repair was likely paid for by an insurance company. Ask to see those receipts. Insurance companies hate follow-on claims so supervise carefully. Also ask to see the post repair survey that the insurance company would have required before insuring it again as it went into charter - or is the insurance carried by a new company? (bad sign)

If the repair was not paid for by an insurance company (e.g. the boat was totaled and sold as salvage), I would probably walk away.

Of course there could be hidden damage - but that can be true of any boat coming off charter. And a surveyor should be able to give you a pretty good sense if the repairs he can see were well done.

As for selling it again - I don't believe you are under any obligation to provide a history of the boat before you owned it. After all, what you were told may or may-not be accurate. The correct answer to "why is that laminate white" is "it was done before I owned the boat".

Of course the next buyer will have a survey done. But presumably by the time you are selling the hurricane is 10 years in the rearview mirror. Anything that's held together for 10 years isn't something to worry about.

[sailingabe41ds]

Insurance ...insurance ... insurance....you should talk to a broker before purchasing and see how willing they are to insure the boat. If you do purchase make it on the condition that the boat can be insured for a fair price.

abe

[Sand crab]

Does the brokers business begin with the letter I?

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

Insurance ...insurance ... insurance....you should talk to a broker before purchasing and see how willing they are to insure the boat. If you do purchase make it on the condition that the boat can be insured for a fair price.

great point. insurance is now limited by age of boat. i would think they would be concerned about storm history as well. you can check that out before buying it.

[Katabolic]

Good points about insurance. The work was reportedly paid by insurance but I wonder about the more recent fuel tank replacement — seems like that may have snuck up on the owner and charter company. I will ask for insurance survey and repair records and start checking insurance will cover it.
The charter company is representing the owner and will keep the boat in charter and on their insurance, which all seems positive.

[endlesspursuit]

Originally Posted by Katabolic

I’m shopping for a production catamaran a few years used. Any tips on assessing the impact to price and resale of repaired Irma damage?
I found a boat which suffered port hull damage and flooded up a couple feet into the port hull. Hull repaired and looks good. Some water stains in the trim. The flooring was cut out to replace the port fuel tank (OEM tank). Port door and panel laminates replaced with white instead of original wood laminate and there is now some quarter-round trim at the floor. Electricals and stern AC replaced. I haven’t seen records of repairs but it looks like decent work. The boat is in charter service so seems to be holding up to regular thorough use.
So, cosmetic issues and storm damage history. 4-cabin boat in charter service. What danger signs should I check? How hard would this be to re-sell?

Thanks!

More notes:
- engine compartment stayed dry, was not affected
- port stern was pierced near the waterline apparently by dock edge / planks
- reportedly the flooding was caught and pumped out same day as it happened

Someone else also said watch Parley Revival video's. His repaired cat that they sailed to Panama had a bulk head let go and the mast sank into the deck. Major structural problem now. And they never noticed it when they repaired the boat the first time.