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Thenaz007 · 02-10-2015, 10:24

IYO is this a bargain or a money pit for someone mechanically inclined? My wife is pretty claustrophobic in cats under 42' and we would love room for visitors (we have 4 adult children). New Engines, sail drives, and interior, and my understanding is the epoxy and cedar plank (i.e. Chris White) hull is among the best available (done correctly). Builder and architect are listed. Looks to need sails and some controls and TLC (Probably paint the orange). Who would even be qualified to evaluate the structural soundness of a custom build? I guess it would be conceivable to put another $50K into her and it would be the difference between a 20 yr. old boat with lots of updating and a 10 year old smaller boat that probably needs some...

colemj · 02-10-2015, 10:52

Hard for anyone to comment since there is no link, pictures or description of the boat.

Mark

Thenaz007 · 02-10-2015, 10:56

Sorry

1996 49 ft Custom Catamaran Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

UNCIVILIZED · 02-10-2015, 11:18

Um, you asked, so I'll lay out some of the numbers for you. But in addition to that, it would help if you give us some of your sailing background & skills, sailing goals, & what you intend to do with the boat. Also, an abridged resume in terms of your tool using skill level, & experience background would help too.

Basic sails alone, for a boat like that, will easily run you $20k (if not twice that, if you want any performance sails/ones to cover the full wind spectrum). And if the sails are shot, plus, given the age of the boat, then it's time to re-rig; Standing, & Running - so $10k+. Then there's a minimum of $10k per engine & drive unit, if not $15k per. And likely some major wiring work/systems which need updating. Paint's another eash $10k - $15+ ...

Now this isn't counting anything like repainting the interior. Upgrading/replacing any of the systems in the galley. Wiring in a full charging system for all of your toys... nor buying said toys;
Navigational equipment. Self steering. Ground Tackle. A dinghy, with outboard, plus davits. Water maker, with large tank capacity. Dual fuel filtering systems, tanks, & engine instruments + controls.
Each of the above is going to run anywhere from $5k - $15k. And that's with you doing a fair bit of the work.

Nigel Calder is pretty much the guru, when it comes to sailboat maintenance, upkeep, & systems installation & design. At least in the eye of the general public. And I HIGHLY suggest buying some of his books, in order to start getting a handle on the systems onboar boats.
Anyway, he also wrote this excellent article on refitting boats, & it's worth a read.
A Refit Reality Check | Cruising World

So, I'd suggest that you start looking into the costs of the things which I mentioned, for yourself. That, as well as what you & the Mrs. want onboard a boat, & generate a checklist, plus a spread sheet. It'll help to give you a no nonsense idea of what any boat's really worth, in addition to what it'll cost to get her cruise ready, and or up to your personal specs.

Along with that, it might behove you to hire a project manager cum skipper, to help you to navigate through all of this. And to keep tabs on how things are going with any refit.
Hell be able to save you a fair bit of coin, & keep your stress level a good bit lower during the process. As there will be a dozen or two contractors, & specialists involved in putting your boat together.

On surveyors, look up the SAMS & NAMS websites. They are, respectively, the Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors, & National Association of Marine Surveyors. And they'll help get you started on surveyors in your area, or in that of a perspective boat. Plus, when you get your short list of names, it's a good idea to do some asking around, including on here, to get a feel for how good they truly are, as well as how easy they are to work with. Including their ability to turn technical speak into layman's terms.
Also, there are some great surveyors here on the forum. So, done properly, you can pick their brain's a bit on things. Including how to choose the best surveyor for you.

It's a lot of info I know, but hopefully helpful.

travellerw · 02-10-2015, 11:23

Hhhmm, I'm not an expert at all, so take this with a grain of salt.

She wouldn't have made my shortlist.

I'm a risks vs rewards type of person, so I would have no problem taking a risk on a custom boat. In this case, I don't see the reward. I think she priced at the top of the market for what she is, even considering the new equipment.

jdazey · 02-10-2015, 11:33

We just had a similar boat (Surprise) surveyed by Jonathan Sands at Atlantic Marine Group. He has a lot of experience with multihulls and did a very good job for us. The issues he found allowed us to negotiate a reduction in the offer price to much more than pay for his services.

Remember that $200,00 is an "asking" price.

UNCIVILIZED · 02-10-2015, 12:11

PS: Regarding surveyors. Given the amount of coin you're talking about dropping on the boat, & fitting her out. If you find a great surveyor, in terms of professional knowledge, & who's easy to work with, then it's worth considering paying for his travel expenses, etc., to go with you to look at a boat. Even if that includes a plane ticket, accomodations, & per diem, on top of his fees.
As you'll already have developed a good working relationship with him, & he'll have gained a pretty solid set of insights into what it is that you're looking for. On top of your personal strengths & weaknesses, in terms of evaluating a vessel.
The same can be said for hiring a good Naval Architect to evaluate the key structures on a boat. As such is his area of expertise. Although, as Nigel Calder says in the above linked article. "If there's any question of anything structural (being wrong), walk away".

He states as much, because the cost of fixing such things, on top of the costs of everything else, could easily run more than that of a new vessel. Depending on the nature of what needs fixing.

FSMike · 02-10-2015, 20:13

Reading the Yacht World listing shows that the boat was repowered recently (2014 IIRC), with less than 500 hours on the engines/saildrives. Also has an apparently new generator, and comes with a dinghy.

Electronics include vhf, d/s, a/p, and windlass that I can see. Apparently no radar, ssb, or ais. Probably no watermaker or they would have mentioned it.

Pix of interior look good, can't tell about the sails without looking at them. No information I saw about the age of the standing rigging.

I personally would change the ground tackle but let's not start another anchor thread.
Might be a good deal.

Dulcesuenos · 02-10-2015, 20:20

One surveyor listed already on this site is not Sams or Nams certified and was discredited. Be careful who you use lots of seedy surveyors out there who promote their cash business and do a terrible job but wow you by pointing out the obvious pretending to be knowledgeable , while missing major issues and copying and pasting surveys.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

FSMike · 03-10-2015, 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

One surveyor listed already on this site is not Sams or Nams certified and was discredited. Be careful who you use lots of seedy surveyors out there who promote their cash business and do a terrible job but wow you by pointing out the obvious pretending to be knowledgeable , while missing major issues and copying and pasting surveys-----

"on this site" - do you mean on this thread? I see only one surveyor mentioned and my research indicates he is accredited, certified, and well respected.
????

Boatguy30 · 03-10-2015, 07:22

Last I checked you send SAMS $2500/ year and you're a "respected" surveyor. I myself have thought of becoming a surveyor but the entire system is really a scam.

I'm happy to do pre purchase "inspections" but do not conduct "surveys" for insurance purposes.

Sand crab · 03-10-2015, 08:56

I noticed this one when it was listed. The stern is quite a bit lower. It could be all that new stainless back there. Plus the scuba tanks. I also wonder if the aft platform was original. Now put the 14' dinghy and motor on those davits and you see what I mean.

jdazey · 03-10-2015, 09:07

Warning--potential thread drift:

I'm on the board of directors for a hull insurance pool (Pacific Trollers Fund), and as a result, I see a lot of surveys. I hired Jonathan Sands on the basis of an older survey he did of the same boat. I requested a pre-purchase survey which included rigging and fluid analysis. While I won't disagree that many surveys/surveyors leave a lot to be desired, the two surveys from Jonathan Sands are far and away the most accurate and detailed of any I've seen. I hope this will be my last boat. If not, I'll hire Jonathan to survey the next one.

My wife and I briefly considered Kraken and decided to pass as it's more of a project than we wanted to take on (and it's ORANGE). We bought a boat in better apparent condition and still expect to put $60,000 into refitting. Kraken could still be a good deal for the right people and at the right price, just don't underestimate the cost of fixing her up.