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22-11-2020, 22:22
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#76
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: SE Asia, for now
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 4,161
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor
Cats very very rarely capsize sideways over, they are much more likely to pitchpole which gets into a whole different discussion on dynamic hull shapes etc.
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“Much more likely”?????
The amount of force required to pitch pole is several times more than that required to capsize. Sure, Hobie 16s and other beach cats pitch pole fairly often, but full size cruising boats?
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23-11-2020, 00:59
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#77
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2014
Boat: Shuttleworth Advantage
Posts: 2,795
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxykty
Continuing a comparison of our Outremer 55L as representative of traditional high performance cruising cats to a TS50 as representative of higher performance racer/cruiser cats. www.multihulldynamics.com. - SA O55L 1297, TS50 1615
- Disp O55L 11, TS50 7.4
- SA/D O55L 24.5, TS50 39.8
- SSpd O55L 23.0, TS50 15.2
- KSI O55L 38.7, TS50 25.6
But, can we really consider a TS50, or a Gunboat 55, or TS5, and other similar cats with sky high SA/D and very poor stability numbers, as performance cruising cats? Or are these actually racer/cruiser cats that shouldn’t be considered for short handed offshore cruising?
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Whilst the SA/D is important it does not give a representation of capsize moment as beam width and bow and keel configuration are ignored.
The KSI number is much more indicative,
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23-11-2020, 06:06
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#78
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Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Between Caribbean and Canada
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 8,906
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Mention of reverse hows reminded me of a brand new cat that was lost some years ago. IIRC It was built in Long Island, NY and was making a maiden voyage south when caught in a gale.
It was a futuristic look with an almost all glass house. When they found the hull the glass house was gone.
Anyway it had reverse bows and I THINK it suffered steering failure that led to abandonment.
Not sure if this incident is of any interest to this crowd.
Sorry I don't recall name or manufacture.
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23-11-2020, 06:08
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#79
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Beijing
Posts: 718
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer
Mention of reverse hows reminded me of a brand new cat that was lost some years ago. IIRC It was built in Long Island, NY and was making a maiden voyage south when caught in a gale.
It was a futuristic look with an almost all glass house. When they found the hull the glass house was gone.
Anyway it had reverse bows and I THINK it suffered steering failure that led to abandonment.
Not sure if this incident is of any interest to this crowd.
Sorry I don't recall name or manufacture.
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Alpha 42
https://wavetrain.net/2014/01/17/hel...g-be-good-too/
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23-11-2020, 08:01
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#80
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Denmark
Boat: Lagoon 380
Posts: 276
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxykty
“Much more likely”?????
The amount of force required to pitch pole is several times more than that required to capsize. Sure, Hobie 16s and other beach cats pitch pole fairly often, but full size cruising boats?
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No, most cruising cats has double as much transverse stability as longitudinal stability. But a gust from behind, will be weakened by the boat speeding up - normally ... where a gust while sailing on a beam reach or higher will see the boat speeding up, and will increase the apparent wind
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23-11-2020, 10:24
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#81
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Baltimore, Md
Posts: 62
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Racing cats are much more likely to tip over than commercial cruising boats. Racing Cat: VERY Light, Tall sails, simple physics. Ask Archimedes
__________________
Paul Bartomioli
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23-11-2020, 10:31
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#82
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 7,461
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulBartomioli
Racing cats are much more likely to tip over than commercial cruising boats. Racing Cat: VERY Light, Tall sails, simple physics. Ask Archimedes
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If a racing cat is reefed down to equal the sailing speed of a commercial cruising cat it will probably be more stable.
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23-11-2020, 10:58
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#83
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 4
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
The story of collision is just for insurance trigger purpose... so something could/can eventually be paid !! collision? BS (anyhow I don't blame it to try to get the insurance to cover)
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23-11-2020, 11:00
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#84
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sidney, BC and Calabogie ON, Canada
Posts: 280
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Another example of a multi hull in an inverted stable position. That is why as a cruiser and not a racer, I'll take a mono hull over a multi hull any day. Another disadvantage of a multi hull it that it is too easy to over power the rig which might have contributed to this disaster. Dismasting under similar circumstance is not uncommon either
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23-11-2020, 11:01
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#85
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 7,461
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by migaguiar
The story of collision is just for insurance trigger purpose... so something could/can eventually be paid !! collision? BS (anyhow I don't blame it to try to get the insurance to cover)
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Cool, so you were on the cat when it flipped. Please tell us the story as obviously we are dying to know from someone with firsthand knowledge.
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23-11-2020, 11:02
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#86
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 7,461
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by argonauta1
Another example of a multi hull in an inverted stable position. That is why as a cruiser and not a racer, I'll take a mono hull over a multi hull any day. Another disadvantage of a multi hull it that it is too easy to over power the rig which might have contributed to this disaster. Dismasting under similar circumstance is not uncommon either
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Please produce links to all those cruising cats that have been dismasted.
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23-11-2020, 11:10
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#87
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Baltimore, Md
Posts: 62
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj
If a racing cat is reefed down to equal the sailing speed of a commercial cruising cat it will probably be more stable.
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Reefing and Racing Catamaran are oxymorons. The pros sail in weather 99% of people would not even consider. And you do not address the issue of it being MUCH lighter in weight. No galley, no saloon, no heads. Stripped down is not even close.
__________________
Paul Bartomioli
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23-11-2020, 11:14
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#88
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Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 13,088
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj
Please produce links to all those cruising cats that have been dismasted.
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Here is one that was caught on camera
https://youtu.be/mxojo8pPpvI
Here's another post dismast
https://youtu.be/82CkA427n2g
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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23-11-2020, 11:22
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#89
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 7,461
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul
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Cool, you’ve produced 2 videos of catamarans losing masts in benign conditions, probably due to lack of maintenance, same would happen to any design boat.
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23-11-2020, 11:23
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#90
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Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 13,088
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Re: 15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj
Please produce links to all those cruising cats that have been dismasted.
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Here's another
https://youtu.be/A1ZgCCx5UNI
And a flipper
https://youtu.be/7zFo5NtC4JE
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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