Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

Maybe in Holland fathers don't continue to call kids to their teenager (kids) or to their young adults (after 16 to mid 20's) but it is a common practice in many countries, figuratively speaking, when older guys are talking to older guys regarding their "kids".

As far as I'm concerned anyone under 60 is a kid..

[Hudson Force]

Since 1964 I've taken about twenty trips to Europe and I've always been interested in the sailing community at various locations in the Med and a bit around Ireland, England and Holland. I don't find great differences between North America and Europe regarding the enthusiasm with racing or cruising by age or sex or even the variety of vessels. I do have the impression that living aboard vessels is available in North America in greater numbers for those with less income, but even that is an assumption from what I've observed and not verified by numerical data. Much of this "my side" versus "your side" of the pond seems unjustified.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

That's another area where proud, but ignorant, America has a lot of catching up with modern Europe. We have something called DYT. Only low budget sailors (seen those USD500 thread, Elan thread, and Bavaria 38 thread?) go thru the 'get slammed' areas. European yacht owners spend their seasons sailing in the Caribbean and Med.

Thank you, Mario!

Only very rich guys use DYT "normal" sailors from all Europe prefer to pass their retirement days sailing on the med, some with an occasional tour on the Caribbean, at least once, just to see how it is. Even most rich guys prefer to sail to the Caribbean. You have just to look at the boats that make the ARC.

They bring their boats from the North of Europe to the med sailing and go to the Caribbean sailing and North Atlantic or Biscay are not always easy to sail.

Another misconception is that the med is always easy to sail. It has some zones that are easy, others that are not easy and the type of seas that can happen there can be quite dangerous. I have refereed several times that an old guy that had circumnavigated twice had told to me that the worst that he had got in what regards bad weather was on the med.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

I have refereed several times that an old guy that had circumnavigated twice had told to me that the worst that he had got in what regards bad weather was on the med.

Well.. it is the furthest N on the Milk Run circuit..

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Polux

Only very rich guys use DYT "normal" sailors from all Europe prefer to pass their retirement days sailing on the med, some with an occasional tour on the Caribbean, at least once, just to see how it is. Even most rich guys prefer to sail to the Caribbean. You have just to look at the boats that make the ARC.

They bring their boats from the North of Europe to the med sailing and go to the Caribbean sailing and North Atlantic or Biscay are not always easy to sail.

Another misconception is that the med is always easy to sail. It has some zones that are easy, others that are not easy and the type of seas that can happen there can be quite dangerous. I have refereed several times that an old guy that had circumnavigated twice had told to me that the worst that he had got in what regards bad weather was on the med.

Hahaha! C'mon, I was just trolling at idle speed. Now and then you can get a fat mackerel like this ;-)

A bit more seriously though. You will notice my use of YACHT OWNERS (people not on a budget) vs. SAILORS (the rest of the crowd).

You are wrong about the rich sailing the ARC (unless I drew the wrong conclusion from how I read what you wrote). There may be some rich in the crowd, but I think pretty few ones. Why should a rich person mix up with the crowd?

I remember Steve Jobs yacht was here. I can't remember seeing Steve onboard. And it did not take part in the ARC either.

Rich people? Yachts? St Barth Regatta, Les Voiles de Saint-Tropez, etc.

Cheers,
b.

[gjorgensen]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

That's another area where proud, but ignorant, America has a lot of catching up with modern Europe. We have something called DYT. Only low budget sailors (seen those USD500 thread, Elan thread, and Bavaria 38 thread?) go thru the 'get slammed' areas. European yacht owners spend their seasons sailing in the Caribbean and Med.b.

I know this is bait. But ironically, my entire Med sailing experience involved getting thrashed pretty badly during a couple Corsica races with a friend from Nice (with a nice IMX-38). Although I have to say that the part where we had constant wind in the 40's and flat water was pretty cool, the rest was just brutal.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Well.. it is the furthest N on the Milk Run circuit..

This seems to have happened in October, that for some is still inside the sailing season on the med:

"The ship, registered in the Bahamas and owned by Horizon Navigation, was built in 2000. One of largest and fastest passenger cruisers ....The ship was sailing from Tunis to Barcelona when the storm struck.
A giant wave smashed a bridge window, knocking out the control systems."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hUqt2acbm8

and this one is not nice also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHdqqOGYMi8

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

This seems to have happened in October, that for some is still inside the sailing season on the med:

"The ship, registered in the Bahamas and owned by Horizon Navigation, was built in 2000. One of largest and fastest passenger cruisers ....The ship was sailing from Tunis to Barcelona when the storm struck.
A giant wave smashed a bridge window, knocking out the control systems."

Yup.. that Tramontana can be a real bitch.. know it well..

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Yup.. that Tramontana can be a real bitch.. know it well..

And regarding the worst weather a captain has experienced to have been on the med it was not only that circumnavigator, the Captain of that cruise ship said the same and he doesn't sail only on the med:

"The captain of a Royal Caribbean cruise ship that was in the midst of a savage storm in the Eastern Mediterranean on Sunday morning said today it was something he had never seen in 35 years at sea.“It was a horrifying experience for us crew members as much as it was for the passengers,” Captain Erik Tengelsen said....The weather forecast was of 45 knot winds yet the storm produced wind of between 50 and 68 knots."
Updated: Cruise ship captain says storm was worst he experienced in 35 years - timesofmalta.com

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Much of this "my side" versus "your side" of the pond seems unjustified.

But .. but .. but ...
There has to be an 'us'. And if there's an 'us', there is a 'them'.
And thus starts the never ending "us versus them" ...

[Jim Cate]

Hmm..

Yesterday (18 March) we had a simple frontal passage here in Tasmania... only gale warnings, and we had gusts in the low 40's in Macquarie Harbour. But up in Bass Straits at the Wilson's Promentory light house weather station, the official observations showed hours of sustainted 60+ and gusts of nearly 90 knots... and it is still summer here! (Such as summer is in Tassie!).

I guess that is why one sees a lot of pilot house motor sailor type yachts down here, and damn few of Pollux's "cruising boats".

Jim

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Hmm..

Yesterday (18 March) we had a simple frontal passage here in Tasmania... only gale warnings, and we had gusts in the low 40's in Macquarie Harbour. But up in Bass Straits at the Wilson's Promentory light house weather station, the official observations showed hours of sustainted 60+ and gusts of nearly 90 knots... and it is still summer here! (Such as summer is in Tassie!).

I guess that is why one sees a lot of pilot house motor sailor type yachts down here, and damn few of Pollux's "cruising boats".

Jim

I don't have any preference regarding many types of sailboats. I would chose different sailboats to do different types of sailing and cruising on different locations so talking about Polux's cruising boats makes no sense. The only common characteristics between those boats, I mean the ones I prefer, is that they are all fast and contemporary.

But regarding what you say you are right, I don't like motorsailors neither I think they are the best option regarding bad weather.

I am not saying that the Med has the worst seas on the planet (not at all) just that the idea that the Med is a very easy and calm location is vastly exaggerated and if one believe that it will have some surprises.

It is not only the wind that counts but the type of waves with vertical walls and short frequency. On the med a simple F9 can create conditions that will endanger sailboats or any type of small crafts.

Look at this considerable sized Italian Coast Guard trying to go out and changing ideas...and it is only end of October, a merely F9, but look at the waves and you can imagine the problems a small sailboat would encounter sailing there, motor sailor or otherwise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKybiF8VPg4

[Sandero]

Unfortunately this thread has not identified the cultural differences which reflect in the design of sailboats in NA and Europe.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Unfortunately this thread has not identified the cultural differences which reflect in the design of sailboats in NA and Europe.

It seems to me that that we can see two tendencies regarding that on this thread:

1- That there are no diference, developments happen first in Europe that almost monopolize sailboat yacht boat building. European sailors due to proximity and also due to being a much bigger market (with more cruisers and sailors) defines tendencies on design (regarding all types of boats) that later will arrive to US with some years of decallage, I mean in what concerns the vanguard on sailboat design development regarding each type.

2- That really there is an American cultural difference and Americans like different things in style and boat design. That would imply that Americans would prefer American sailboats, not only because they are Americans but because they are designed to satisfy American taste in sailboat (regarding all types) that would be different than the European one.

This two positions have been defended by different posters. What is yours?

[StuM]

I think the difference is probably similar to the difference between American and European taste in cars