Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

[Lizzy Belle]

My boat was a cave ...

Dark wood, dark cushions, dark everything. I kept some of it as it was, and painted the sides (between the windows, kept the original teak cabinets), ceiling and the ... what's the English for the "walls"? Bulkheads? ... white. The cushions have a darker red cover I can easily take off again.

But ... I do like my "submarine", as my neighbor calls it (he lives on a channel boat and can't get used to the idea of living partly below the waterline). It's what we call knus in Dutch, which is kinda hard to translate. Let's go with cosy.

I was on a Lagoon - not what I'd call cosy. Too big, too much white plastic. That's why I like the little Prout cats: not much to look at from the outside, but at least they still have that cosy thing happening on the inside

Edit:
This is Lizzy Belle as I bought her. Way too dark and those curtains are ridiculous

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

So true. Thanks for pointing that out. I have one of those "dark caves" too but it sure works wonders up in the California Delta when it's 100F in the afternoon (although it cools to 60F at night, daily).

I am sure those folks cruising on different monos, as well as those on cats, have completely different experiences and reasons for their choices.

All valid, too.

I was in a place called Pittsburgh [if I remember right] up the Delta, and I couldn't believe the heat! It was 100F or so...the yard there had a travel lift that had chainfalls to lift the boat...that was a while back, but the heat was impressive!

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

If you read polls here such as "How old is your boat" etc. it is clear that the membership here does not represent the general sailing community. I would dare say sailing magazines represent the sailing community much better than CF, and CF members make fun of them. If CF members truly represented the sailing community Island Packet wouldn't be closing would it?

Well older sailors have been the 'general sailing community' for a very long time. They might perhaps be better considered as being 'further along the learning curve'.

In my case, and very much due to local conditions, and too many extremely uncomfortable trips on more than a few light displacement boats (even though I liked the speed, banging your head against a brick wall becomes really old, really fast), due to all too common nasty vertical faced waves and consequent slamming, has resulted in light displacement boats being nowhere near my shopping list for a long term cruising and living aboard boat.

I do however like the 'crossover' types with cut away forefoot, and a rudder on a skeg, that's heavy displacement with a comfortable and relaxing motion. To me, fit to live on is what's important, and not just fast short trips or racing around the bay.

Heck I've got to live on the thing and with the thing, and I have enough pain now, without actively looking for any more, ty vm.

By the way from what I have experienced, this also translates into much greater comfort while at anchor.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by Sandero

You don't see people using horse and buggy either... an old solution, old technology to the problem of how to get from here to there.

Oh yes you do!

Things horse based are extremely popular.

This may surprise you, but there are more horses around today, than in the Age of the Horse.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

I think that a few things that are probably true no matter what country that you are from are;
1) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
2) There is just no accounting for taste.
3) Most people firmly believe that their choices are vastly superior in every way which by definition makes them quite superior as well.

Style is transitory, and for sale.

You can't buy class.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

Dutch sailors often snicker when (newer) Bavaria's are mentioned, considering them to be borrelboten - meaning they're owned by people who don't leave the marina and just use the cockpit as their waterfront terrace for having drinks.
Many consider them to be too cheaply built and not suitable for serious (offshore) sailing, despite the fact that they do and most make it back in one piece.

This is obviously not true for a) all Dutch sailors b) all Bav owners c) all Bavarias, but "Bavaria bashing" is a very common phenomenon on Dutch sailing forums.

Yes of course as it is also true that lots of Dutch sailors own Bavarias and obviously some leave the marina, even the little ones. Maybe you can pass this movie on those forums. It is always a pleasure to piss very conservative sailors that don't know what they are talking about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F38EDfEGrS8

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by Polux

Maybe you can pass this movie on those forums.

I'm not a member of the Dutch sailing forum ... relatively small group of posters, all posting the same opinion over and over and having the same arguments over and over. A bit like here, just different subjects.

Enjoyed that video tho!

[Delancey]

Bavaria, a land-locked state located in southeastern Germany which borders on the alps. Why the hell would anybody name a yacht company after a land-locked mountainous state? It's like naming a yacht company after Colorado or Wyoming.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Polux

The full keel argument versus fin keel even in America only makes sense in what regards the original premises of the OP (regarding the members of this forum) because in what regards reality the demand of full keels is so low that I don't know of any shipyard that still produces them.

Going a bit further than the fin keel, I would like to extend the scope of the inquiry, regarding that eventual difference in boat tastes, having data about this:

How many sailing Beneteaus and Jeanneaus were produced last year on the US factories?

How many Hunters?

How many Catalinas?

How many Bavarias were imported?

How many other European mass production European boats were imported? (Dufour, Hanse).

I am only interested in today situation regarding taste, so past situations, unless if from the last years are not meaningful.

Knowing these facts it would be easy to take an insight regarding if the American taste is really that different from the European and if today most Americans share the same basic taste on boats with Europeans, or not.

Catalina and Hunter have some differences in design and in fact they are not able to sell boats in Europe (meaningfully) so it would be interesting to know if those differences make them more popular to Americans and Canadians and if that is so, they would sell more than European designs in America.

If it is the opposite, well, it would be proven that the taste regarding boats between Americans and Europeans is not really different.

I think there is an industry book with all this data. Anybody as access to it?

Come on guys are you not curious? This seems interesting to me and it really would help to determine American general taste in what regards sailing boats.

Some information on another thread: Beneteau American factory was producing 10 years ago 400/500 yachts a year. Now they make probably more. Jeanneau America will do about the same number? Plus the 300 boats imported from Europe from other brands (Bavaria, Hanse)

Regarding American brands the only one from whom I could find information is Hunter. It refers only 50 boats a year. Can it be possible?
"The Marlow-Hunter factory produces approximately 50 boats annually of its trailerable and cruising sailboats. Also included in this total is the Downeaster styled and newly developed Marlow Mainship Pilot Series."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Marine

If that is right the number of boats that will interest us are even less because they include on that number 15 to 22ft boats that I would exclude from the number to be considered as cruising boats.

I cannot find any information regarding Catalina, were the same problem exists regarding numbers since Catalina also makes 12 to 27 ft sailboats.

I thought that Hunter were selling in bigger number than Catalina but it seems they are really close to go the same way as IP. They once produced 2000 boats a year.

It seems that after all American taste is very similar to European taste and that all that talk about Ikea interiors regards only a small minority that nonetheless is a majority on this forum.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Bavaria, a land-locked state located in southeastern Germany which borders on the alps. Why the hell would anybody name a yacht company after a land-locked mountainous state? It's like naming a yacht company after Colorado or Wyoming.

Bavaria is where they're located. The company was founded with the purpose to build yachts for charter, and the traditional place were Germans go to to charter is the Adriatic. So being located in the South of Germany makes sense.


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[Island Time O25]

Hunter makes and sells 17-18fters as well, and lots of them. So the figure quoted - 50 - is way out of whack.

I will also throw in my vote for a "cave interior". When I want bright and sunny I stay up on deck. I love the feel of sitting/chilling in what looks a cozy English library type of interior. No IKEA looking spaces for me, thank you very much. And with 4 overhead and 10 cabin side hatches there is still plenty of light coming in. Not to mention plenty of air. Installed 4 fans a few years back and only used 1 of them once or twice for a short while.

[lifeofreilly57]

Maybe the input from full keeler oficianados tends to be more enthusiastic on the site? From what I've observed while cruising the east coast of the US most of what I've seen is toward find or modified full keel boats. Not as many full keeler. More performance cruisers these days. Can't speak for the west coast or pacific cruisers.
Still like skeg hung rudders for cruising though, catch fewer lobster traps and stray nets with it.


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[Crealock37]

It's my perception that in East Asia most sailors want flashy boats, the more modern and glitzy the better. I prefer a traditional look -- hence I think that our Pacific Seacraft is by far the best looking boat around here!

--
Pacific Seacraft 37 (Crealock 37) looking for a new home.
Information here: pacificseacraft37.com

[s/v Jedi]

This thread is like: "most people like to eat premium steak. That can't be because more people eat at the Cracker Barrel than at Morton's Steakhouse. "
It is very hard to make sense of a whirlpool of unrelated data that just keeps growing

[hsi88]

Terminology is something that sticks in my mind as a subtle difference between European and American sailing. Europeans tend to call anything over 20 feet a yacht, Americans tend to think of yachts as luxury boats over 40 feet. But here is where I side with the Europeans. I consider my 26 and 27 foot boats as yachts. At least I like to think so. :-)