yacht roll at anchor

[gjordan]

Harbinger, the trysail is not really intended to put the bow into the wind, so it doesnt need any wind to be effective. When rolling, the mast is moving rather fast and the trysail will slow that down by a big factor. That is why I mentioned raising it as high as possible and still be able to sheet it flat. I took a single line back to the stern pulpit, but a stern cleat would work fine. The worst rolling I have ever been in was a zero wind condition, so spring lines from the quarter would not have helped. Many people raise a mizzen to get the bow into the wind but that only works if the swell and wind are coming from the same direction. It wont keep the bow in any direction if there is no wind. A mizzen will help slow rolling, but not as well as a smaller sail hoisted higher. It is something that I had in the back of my mind and when I really needed it, it was wonderful. Grant.

[j.g.evans]

I have been cruising for over 20 years and have made 12 trips to the Bahamas. I have not found rolling a problem since I sought out relatively protected anchorages with little fetch. I have had very strong winds and found my C&C 36 stable into the wind and my Hunter 40.5 sailing back and forth. This did not bother my sleep. I would buy the Hunter again for it was a wonderful sailing and roomy boat. I certainly would not to store or deploy floppers stoppers. Talk to boat owners before buying any boat.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

In a lot of anchorages the swell rolls round a sheltering headland and comes in at close to right angles to the wind direction, so beam on to anchored boats.

Often a stern anchor can, by holding the boat off that 90' angle, make a huge difference.

This seems to happen a lot.
However, I used to observe boats in a blow in the marina I lived in . This was the 90's. There were a couple designs that rolled in the slip terribly. One was the early Saga 43 design. That thing would roll so much I thought the mast was going to hit the adjacent boat! Protected marina, no waves inside, boats similar size on each dock.

[exMaggieDrum]

We used a Flopperstopper in Mexico - a lot. Many of the very best, or only available, anchorages were in big bays with either large or smaller significant openings to the ocean. Banderas Bay and Zihuatenejo are two that come to mind right away. There are several others. I have seen boats rolling so bad off of La Cruz in Banderas Bay that rolled so bad it was too dangerous to try and board or get off a dinghy.


The Flopperstopper worked pretty well. The problem with it, and any ohters that you make, is that plants and critters will grow on them if you are at anchor very long like we, and many others, were. So they got very nasty and were hard to clean. The FS's were also heavy, large, with sharp corners and edges. Handling them was hard and they were difficult to store. For all that we were happy to have one. One made out of PVC would be easier to clean I would think but haven't tried to do that.



The biggest scares we ever had were with stern anchors. It happens when the wind shifts which may cause you to loose your primary hooks hold if it was dicey to start with. In any case it makes retrieving the stern anchor very difficult with that much strain on it. We had to drop it on a fender one time in the night to get away from other boats lined up with their stern anchors. I will always go to great length to avoid stern anchors. Just my preference as it seems others like to use them.


Of course, it is best to find a nice protected anchorage anywhere you go. I think this discussion is about those times when you can't do that.

[tweekes]

Yeah, they have to be heavy enough to sink with the roll rate or alternativly, hang them closer to the boat so the linear value of the roll is less.

[Don C L]

I think it is best to get the device as far out as possible to minimize roll, but the other thing is, sometimes you just need to introduce a resistance to dampen a kind of severe oscillation due to waves matching the harmonic frequency of the boat, if that makes sense. That may be what happened to the boat in a slip in a previous post.
I’m impressed that so many folks find so many calm anchorages that they’ve never needed one!

[JPA Cate]

Never had to hold onto a plate because of roll in an anchorage, although often eat out of bowls at sea, a behavioral adaptation that maybe belongs among the weird things monohull people do.....

Over time, my attitude towards rolling has also changed. As I have written elsewhere, my body doesn't like jerky motion, and for rolly anchorages, this means I use a pair of pillows to limit how far my body can travel--I limit my motion that is additional to the boat. I have wished for a seat belt to hold me in, lying on my back, but I'm a side sleeper, so wedging helps a lot. But the attitude is different now, at first, I used to resent the rolling, get angry about it, and the energy of the anger kept me awake. Now, my attitude is, "oh, well, I'll get to sleep some other time", I don't worry about losing the sleep, and am often able to get some rest. In addition, if I know I'll have a hard time sleeping, there is a pituitary supplement, melatonin, available over the counter. I used to use the 1 mg. dose, but then could only find the 3 mg tablets, which I cut in half. One of those makes it easier for me to both fall asleep and return to sleep once awakened. If I'm not wedged, I wake up from rolling, so the ability to return to sleep helps. One does not feel drowsy, either, when it's time to go on watch.

Ann

[Kim Klaka]

As others have commented, this is indeed a complicated problem.
see
[URL="https://cmst.curtin.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/05/2002-08.pdf"]

[SV_Harbinger]

Jordan, it seems that I may not have been deploying the tri correctly then, now that I think about it I think you're right, next time I'm in a rolly I think I'll give it a go again. Last few times I tried mine I had it pretty low on the mast almost like you would put a storm sail. In which case I redact my statement on the tri sail until I have a few more goes at it...
Ann if may I also add to the wierd behavior us mono people sometimes develop, and submit that deep fried things (at least on my boat) are usually made in a pot instead of a frying pan lol.

[antaris]

We often deploy our DIY flopperstopper* - from the toerail (and then on to a winch, so the toe rail does not come undone). Faster that using spinnaker pole, etc., yet it does dampen the roll. On a 31ft light displacement S/Y.



*Made of old plastic office-chair back frame with rubber sheet and a chain for added weight (chain not seen in this photo, this is an early test).

[bobs]

Would love to chip in my 2 cents.
We have 2 FS 's now , type Magma , made them from scrap S/S .
Only things I had to buy were the eye bolts to fix the FS to the harness and the hinges .
Made a big one ( size matters) and a smaller to experiment with on the other side of the boat .
In one word ,........awesome .
The difference between a good night sleep , and rise and shine - in a severe swell - or a night full of horror or curses and subsequently a sh*tty day to follow .
The FS needs to be heavy ( go for at least 10 kg preferably more) and the smallest volume on the way down to perform well , that means no drag and a fast drop , so the upward momentum , run & resistance when it unfolds is maximum . That excludes light materials like with lead slightly loaded wood , plastic ...... etc .Takes too long .
Combine that with a second FS to dampen the roll on the other side , and you're home-free .
If you want it be perfect set a kedge anchor using a reel with flat line as we do from time to time . But crowded anchorages will not allow that in case of a wind shift .

I'm currently , as we speak , working on an other boat stabilizer of the principle of the Venetian blinds , like the Flopstopper . Not exactly the same because of the patent and all , although in my case it's for private use and not for commercial reasons .
I might melt some lead and pour into the piping to increase the weight , we're cruisers not racers btw
Next season I will know what type is the most efficient .

I can only recommend using an FS , the admiral will love you for it .
It has no effect on the boat swing in a wind-shift .
I use two poles , one on each side .
That REALLY means getting it as far out as possible , the leverage remember .
Effects on the rigging so far , ......none .

Good luck
Regards

[Sojourner]

Well I just had a hell of a night rolling around and thought I'd share for ideas (sorry for the drift): Transiting from the top of Gulf of Lyon to Mallorca, picked a decent weather window (not easy around here in winter) and got going. Halfway between Barcelona and Mallorca (about 40 miles in either direction) the wind died. And the engine died. And there was a 35+knot storm off to the east by a couple dozen miles. Which sent a super steep 3 meter swell with a period of about 5 seconds straight at us broadside. With 4-5 knots of wind turning in all directions but a handy one, it was very hard to get any steerageway and I ended up at the helm for 30 hours trying to goose this big girl to a comfortable point to ride it out. It was, needless to say, a washing machine in the boat flopping from side to side. I have the best flopperstoppers in the world (IMHO), the venetian blind style Flopstopper, but it would have done zero in those swells What else could I have done? I was toying with the idea of putting out the mizzen only and pulling the stern into the swells, but with the fickle very light wind, I didn't end up messing with it, and effectively lay ahull. Anything to do, or just grin and bear it?

Now we're anchored in sunny Mallorca and it's fast fading to a sad memory, so all good tho....

[-bliss-]

As previously mentioned, the flopper stoppers would be more effective rigged further out of the boats centre line. Nevertheless, this involves enough hazzle for me not to do so. In addition, I don’t like the constant flexing resulting in wear on the sheave, the halyard where it passes the sheave and the boom gooseneck. After all, while sailing I always trim for as little flexing as possible. Why introduce excessive wear while on the hook? My solution in addition to deploying my home made flopper stopper from the midship cleat (which works to a certain degree), is to add a second snubber to the anchor chain, lead it back to sheet winch and tighten enough for the boat to point the bow in an angle that reduces rolling. By leading the second snubber back to a cockpit winch, I can easily adjust the angle without leaving my book and cup of coffee. In addition, sometimes I let my riding sail see daylight, and hoist it quite high in order to reduce rolling. I guess the effect is very similar to a mizzen or a trysail (I have neither of those) The riding sail sheeted to port or starboard is very effective in reducing tacking in windy anchorages, but in calmer rolly conditions it works best higher up, as previously described for reducing rolling from swell. If neither of these alternatives lead to success, I fire up and move to somewhere more protected. Ive got enough gray hair already..

[phillysailor]

So many boats have substantial radar and solar arches aft, why couldn’t one be designed to withstand mitigating rolling forces?

Outriggers normally nestled against the arch could swing down to project a “V” shaped support point 4-7’ port and starboard (limited by the height of the arch) which would slow and reduce both roll and pitch.

Cheap Davis plastic cones and 5 or 10lb mushroom anchors would reduce complexity and costs, a rubber “snubber” of the type used with mooring lines could reduce shock loading.

Engineering the brackets, hinges and bracing the arch against the substantial forces would of course be crucial.

Because the design would be permanent, LED lighting could be designed to augment safety at night. As a dedicated system, ease of use could be greatly improved, and might be designed with a nod to appearance.

[s/v Jedi]

Stern anchors?!



Please search for the Jedi 1 anchor in 99% of all cases rule!

Use the spring from the stern to the anchor rode mentioned by some sailors earlier in the thread and leave those stern anchors in the lockers where they belong

That said, the Magma roller stopper we have works pretty good

Also, don’t go and anchor at Chub Cay in the Bahamas. Just don’t.