Would I regret buying a Wood hull?

[SkiprJohn]

Oh, and we didn't even talk about resale value yet.

[CharlieCobra]

We restore boats, including wood. It's not cheap, even at our rates. If ya don't have the skills, time or deep pockets, do the next best thing and get a plastic boat with wood trim. Less likely to sink if you defer maintenance too long.

Dry rot? No such thing. Wood fungi eating the wood due to exposure to FRESH water and kept within a moisture range that allows it to flourish. Too wet, no rot. Too dry, no rot. Specie makes a big difference. The more bug resistant the better, like black locust.

[Kenomac]

Depends... is your goal to go cruising cheaply, or to continuously work on your boat? If it's to go cruising.... if you buy the wooden boat.... you will regret ever having set your eyes upon the boat in the first place.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by CharlieCobra

Dry rot? No such thing. Wood fungi eating the wood due to exposure to FRESH water and kept within a moisture range that allows it to flourish. Too wet, no rot. Too dry, no rot. Specie makes a big difference. The more bug resistant the better, like black locust.

This is correct. A lot of tuppaware folk on is forum who have no experience whatsoever with rot talk a lot of rot about rot.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Good grief...

I'm not sure who this enlightened comment is directed at, but we're talking about timber as a boatbuilding material. And on that question, I respect the view of Dave Gerr, who concludes - after extensive analysis - that "wood is best" (in his book, The Nature of Boats).

I'm not going to be bothered walking you through the reasons, but you might benefit from reading his thoughts.

[motion30]

Originally Posted by Wand

This is correct. A lot of tuppaware folk on is forum who have no experience whatsoever with rot talk a lot of rot about rot.

And somehow you think that is a bad thing ?

[Wand]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Wand, you're forgetting the maintenance issues. Plastic doesn't get eaten by worms. Doesn't routinely need to be recaulked or replanked. Doesn't rot out and fail because someone let it get and stay damp. Doesn't need the varnish and paint crew every month.

I love wood, but unless you've got resources to keep up with the routine maintenance, the initial purchase cost is the least of it.

No, I'm not forgetting about those issues with wood. As I said, for folk whose interest in boating is a weekend sail - or even just as a means of transport to someplace warm - then plastic makes sense. It is cheap and can be left unattended for long periods without anything more than cosmetic issues. For those reasons, and because it has allowed an enormous number of folk to become involved in boating, the emergence of plastic boating has been a fabulous development.

Wood does need more maintenance - no question about it - especially if you're into bright external finishes. We are talking here about carvel or clinker by the way - glassed over ply or strip plank timber boats are more or less plastic boats for the purposes of this discussion.

But I also put it to you from experience that while wood requires maintenance, that maintenance is not onerous once a certain level of condition is achieved. For example, you suggest that caulking and re-planking are regular jobs and that worms are inevitable. No true.

Start where we agree. Rot need never occur in wooden boats if the vessel is always well ventilated and fresh water is not allowed to pool. As for replanking, that will only be necessary as a result of rot or because of the failure of fastenings. Those fastenings degrade at varying rates, depending on the how well the boat has been maintained and on the material of those fastenings. Wooden boats built with iron fastenings are to be avoided at all costs, except if you want a big refastening job.

And while it is true that worms eat wood, regular antifouling will keep them away; overlook that for a season and you may well have strife.

So to the original poster, I'd suggest that (since this is your first taste of boating?) that getting a boat to go sailing is a better way to start; something like a small trailer sailer or dinghy, probably in plastic or glassed over ply or strip plank. If you like working with your hands and nutting out problems, and can afford it, then get this boat as well - if the fastenings are of good quality and appear mainly sound.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by motion30

And somehow you think that is a bad thing ?

You ask whether posters who have no experience with rot posting a lot of rot about rot is a bad thing? Er, yes I do!

[CharlieCobra]

I saw a post about Kettenburgs being substandard. Simply not true. While some were built lightly for racing, most were not and some of the build methods were very innovative. We refastened and restored two in the last couple of years. K-40 number one and K-50 number six.

[hellosailor]

Charlie-

From the scuriluous source of all web things, the Wikipedia.
Dry rot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Dry rot is the term given to brown rot decay caused by certain fungi that deteriorate timber in buildings and other wooden construction seemingly without an apparent source of moisture."

Note "apparent" source of moisture. So yes, there is such a thing as dry rot, in fact specific types of fungus are given that name. That's like arguing there's no such thing as a broken bone, they are really just different types of fractures. Ain't gonna change the problem though. Or the need to do something about it, unless the boat can heal itself.

I suppose this really should be moved to the "make money while cruising" thread. You know, keep doing the maintenance and varnishwork while you are cruising, and charge people admission to show them how to properly do it? Tom Sawyer and a whitewashed fence sound familiar? <VBG>

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by CharlieCobra

We restore boats, including wood. It's not cheap, even at our rates. If ya don't have the skills, time or deep pockets, do the next best thing and get a plastic boat with wood trim. Less likely to sink if you defer maintenance too long.

Yep...Good advice. Here is a picture of a boat I had in the 90s. A Tartan Blackwatch 37.

[RedHerring]

Originally Posted by Wand

for folk whose interest in boating is a weekend sail - or even just as a means of transport to someplace warm - then plastic makes sense. It is cheap and can be left unattended for long periods without anything more than cosmetic issues.
...
Wood does need more maintenance - no question about it - especially if you're into bright external finishes.
...
So to the original poster, I'd suggest that (since this is your first taste of boating?) that getting a boat to go sailing is a better way to start

Heh. Looks like we have a complete consensus on all the relevant points. Including all the good things you said about wooden boats.

As for the notion that there is is no such thing as dry rot. My teenage kids can argue semantics, too. This mode of conversation doesn't usually seem to produce any actionable intel. If anyone can convincingly argue that a cheap, old wooden cruiser is a good first boat for a newbie to boating, it would be ... extremely enlightening, I guess.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Wand

This is correct. A lot of tuppaware folk on is forum who have no experience whatsoever with rot talk a lot of rot about rot.

I'm just quoting Ron Rico.

[Curmudgeon]

I was at a wedding a few years ago and got talking to the groom's brother, who owns a boatyard. He said to me "I LOVE wooden boats."

Caveat emptor.

[Suijin]

I think the fundamental question here is whether you're going to stick with your girlfriend or not. Her fathet sounds like an invaluable resource. Lose her and the whole picture might change.

That particular boat looks like a real risk, if only presented as being in "sail away" condition with a little bit of this and a little bit of that. That boat has sat for awhile. Any boat that has sat is going to take more to commission than you think.

Teak decks. To replace those, if you had the skills to do it yourself and the time, would run you $8,000 in materials and tools. To have someone else do it is going to cost you roughly $1,000 per foot unless you sail to Trinidad or some other place with cheap skilled labor. So that should give you some sense of the costs involved, and that's not even structural. Get to a point where you need to replace ribs and planks and if nothing else it's going to get extremely time consuming.

So, no, a wood boat is not an inexpensive option unless you have the right skills, the time, and a love for working on wooden boats.

I grew up with wood boats, working on them and maintaining them. A well maintained one can be extremely seaworthy and durable, and even low maintenance, but it's not something you should dive into thinking it's going to be a less expensive way to get on the water. I would not even think of buying one that had been stored up in a barn without the expectation that I was going to need to take it almost completely apart to see what I had bought and what it needed to be seaworthy again.