World's Largest Sailing Yacht A

[brianlara 3]

Don't apologise JB.
Sadly, many are impressed with grandiose.
And the thumping sounds which emanate from a Silverbacks chest thumping.
Someone suggested "sour grapes". Not with me it ain't.
What the world could do with is more Buffetts and Gates and Ratan Tatas.

[Celestialsailor]

Just from it's wake and perfectly flat, unrippled waterline, it is a total cartoon. I guess if you get your ya ya's posting something like this, it's best done April 1st. Geeez man...are you going to get your own boat or what?

[Franziska]

Few things.

Sailing Yacht A Hull is not carbon or composite:
http://www.superyachttimes.com/yacht...iling-yacht-a/

I put Phoenicia in a previous post only to show that there are prettier unconventional sailing yacht designs around than the ugly "A".
In its first version the ugly heli platform was not there.

The bow of Phoenicia can be made to work.
Gold coast catamarans (and others) do similar things for many years, on a smaller scale though.
See their powerboats. Namely WP104.

Personally I like the style of boats coming from Vitters or Royal Huisman more than something like "A".

http://www.vitters.com

Fine example from Royal Huisman here:

http://www.charterworld.com/news/wp-...gn-665x431.jpg

[CbroTheDude]

Originally Posted by Franziska

That's what is happening if gazillionaires with a distinct lack of taste let a rogue furniture designer go wild instead of involving someone with proper experience in the field.

His other yacht "A" is from the same "designer".
And yes I do not like Venus either.

What a disgrace to yacht design.

Franziska

In which illusion world are you? Nobody throws hundreds of millions blindly, the designer satisfied the owner's needs dealing with the technical limitations. As soon as the boat floats and the owner had what he wanted, job done.
Thus Stark now have designed at least three mega yachts of which is the biggest sail assisted boat in the world, if that's not experience...
If by someone with experience you mean someone making boat you like, the dude would have done the same or be fired.

[Franziska]

Actually I am working for many years in mega yacht design.

Stark can design what he wants but the stuff he did is plainly horrible.
Ask anyone not directly involved with these projects in the industry and they will say the same.

[Island Time O25]

Speaking of mega sailboats.

Back in the mid to late 90s, when I was just starting out learning the ropes at a sailing club, my buddy who got me into it and I chartered club's Cal/O'day39 for a 10 day cruise around the Cape Cod. One of our stops was Edgartown in Martha's Vineyard. We're coming in really late, well after 9PM so it's pitch dark and we're still a mile or two from the mooring field. The skipper, my buddy, gets this puzzling look on his face and explains to me that he sees what appears to be 3 tall antennas which were not there last season. So we get there, quickly grab a mooring and retire for the night. In the morning I look into the portlight and see a blue hull at a distance. Going up on deck I see this huge but really gorgeous 2 masted sailboat, about 150ft long, give or take. And the masts were tall, actually turned out to be 170 ft. The boat looked like an IOR Swan on steroids but is really beautiful and well proportioned. We see the crew frolicking upon deck and then a huge stern hatch opens up and out comes a roaring PWC and a few minutes later a fully rigged windsurfer with sail and all. At that moment our 39 footer felt like an Optimist. So we dinghy over to chat with the crew. They told us the owner was not expected until later in the week so the crew was doing their R&R before his arrival. The owner turned out to be the guy who sold Rockport shoe company to Reebok a few years prior and used the proceeds to order that mega sailboat.

Next day as we were leaving that mega sailboat was joined by another mega yacht this time a 3 masted sailboat about 200ft but we never found out who the owner was.

My point being that it is possible to design a mega sail yacht which is not fugly or bulky.

PS Just googled it and turns out that the yacht was a 2 masted 145ft Ron Holland design launched in 1993 and refitted recently.

[CbroTheDude]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Actually I am working for many years in mega yacht design.

Stark can design what he wants but the stuff he did is plainly horrible.
Ask anyone not directly involved with these projects in the industry and they will say the same.

Stark was paid to design something to the owner's taste and specifications not his own and anything getting close to a Costa cruising boat with masts can hardly be proportionate or beautiful which is why I find it hard to blame the designer.
And not saying this is good looking but a one sided idea of beauty in the whole sailing yachts industry as you claim would be pretty dull and sad.

[Franziska]

Design has in my eyes also something to do with responsibility and not only money.
Maybe Stark fell for the money.

Still in my eyes it would have been his responsibility to create something beautiful and prevent such an esthetical disaster from happening.

Designer should carefully coax clients in the right direction.
Did not happen here as far as I can see.

[CbroTheDude]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Design has in my eyes also something to do with responsibility and not only money.
Maybe Stark fell for the money.

Still in my eyes it would have been his responsibility to create something beautiful and prevent such an esthetical disaster from happening.

Designer should carefully coax clients in the right direction.
Did not happen here as far as I can see.

True, might be the money, and the fact it's a Russian billionaire asking for it
Hard to know the degree of freedom he had, or if Stark decided to go full retard to mock the kind of demand that was made to him and do it ugly on purpose, who knows?

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Design has in my eyes also something to do with responsibility and not only money.
Maybe Stark fell for the money.

Still in my eyes it would have been his responsibility to create something beautiful and prevent such an esthetical disaster from happening.

Designer should carefully coax clients in the right direction.
Did not happen here as far as I can see.

There are too many designs made to the designers thinking rather than what the owner wants. Once, I nearly gave into a designers 'coaxing' on a building project that would have made the intended use of the structure more pretty but impractical. It has to be a mix of the two. He was upset that I refused to allow him free reign but after it was built he accepted that the need for speedy access in daily medical use was better served by the 'direct' route I insisted on. (It doesnt mean that I didnt like the concept he proposed, it just was not practical).

I have no idea if this boat is ugly or innovative... I know that it is not to my liking but for all that, its not my boat. I know many people who find the Taj Mahal and the Sydney Opera House not beautiful, so personal choice is always paramount.

Im not keen on open Transoms on monohulls yet many people rave about them.

The only question I have is whether the design takes boating, keel and sail design forward another beneficial notch at all. I would like to see this boat under full canvas and in brisk weather.

It certainly is different, and for good or bad will generate emotions wherever it goes.

For those that have the skills, just import a side photo of the vessel into an editing program and add a few lines here and there and see if the vessels appeal improves..

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Actually I am working for many years in mega yacht design.

Stark can design what he wants but the stuff he did is plainly horrible.
Ask anyone not directly involved with these projects in the industry and they will say the same.

Hi Franziska

Unless you know the Owner's specific brief and involvement, I think it is unfair to criticise Stark.

As an Owner's representative I have interviewed and hired a number of famous designers in both Europe and USA

Normally we will give them a detailed Owners brief of specific areas and the shortlisted 4 or 5 will be asked to make a detailed proposal of those areas in a defined presentation form. They are paid for that work.

Rarely do we ask for a detailed exterior profile, just a GAP.

We go thru that vetting process to eliminate the Ego Designers, who only have their own vision and don't listen to the client.

The Reason:.....It is common amongst new Owners to request that the Superyacht is designed from the inside out

Form following Function!

So the exterior profile is generally the last piece to be finalized after the NA and Structural guys have had their say.

The new Billionaire lives on the inside and generally focusses on the line of sights and ergonomics above all else.

Different and Personal, he is not interested in the comments of those who could never manage such an investment.

He knows the reasons for the exterior shapes and accepts them.

My job was always to get rid of the egos and build a team that satisfies the different Design Phases thru to the production of a yacht, the Builder can execute.

The client is the only one who needs to be satisfied..... The rest of us are simply employees.

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

My job was always to get rid of the egos and build a team that satisfies the different Design Phases thru to the production of a yacht, the Builder can execute.

I can't be bothered too much with this discussion or with this *niche*. If you think you can eliminate egos with people who *play* at that level... you are deluded.... and I say this as an architect who has worked on high end residential project since 1972 doing work for people such as the president of NBC. With rare exception it's pretty creepy, mostly vulgar and shameless exposure of their wealth. There are some exceptions such as clients who own valuable artwork... but look at all the multi million dollar palaces shown on TV... note there is no art on the walls??????????

++++

If Philipe Starke designed this... it shows he can do hideous and incompetent design... and probably was the influence of France which has some very bizarre approaches to modernist design. He was clearly in over his head in the marine environment.

Hands down one of the ugliest things I have ever seen on the water... and that includes the monster cruise floating hotels.

[Franziska]

@Pelagic

Agree to form follows function and your thoughts on big ego designers.

But even then I feel that designer should also set limits to some degree when it comes to hideous esthetics.
Mr. Stark surely has a good amount of ego and is successful and wealthy enough to set some limits.
Still maybe the client asked for something far worse than what we see as an result here. We do not know that.

Nevertheless Mr. Stark can of course have accepted this job despite knowing what it will look like in the end.

His benefit are surely a lot of money, that his name gets spread around (which helps selling all the other stuff he and his team designed and with this sustaining their jobs) and being able to claim that he designed the biggest sailing yacht in the world.

As to form follows function, I am 100% sure that the same usability would have been achievable with a more pleasant form factor.
Most designs are compromises to allow better usability and that is perfectly OK to me.

You mention line of sight. Sideways I can't see that to be fantastic from the bridge, unless they have a lot of cameras.
Still it must work somehow else class would not have accepted it.

Regarding profile centric design.
I'm not sold on that.
In older times profiles where focused on because creating 3d Images was far more evolved than it is these days.
There are many things out there which look very very different when you turn the 2d profile into a 3d view/shape.
Not always to a better result.

Still there are risks in 3d too. Usually 3d views are generated from a raised view angle which tends to make boats look elegant even if they are not.
A designer does always shows the best images he creates as he/she wants to sell their design.
In my eyes one should also ask for pictures in the dock or tender perspective during the design process.


Nevertheless every one is of course entitled to define his or her own line when it comes to the famous :
"We do whatever the client pays for."

[gtpinhei]

While people should be free to do whatever they want with their money, Beauty is a matter of taste, and what would be of blond people if everyone liked brunettes?

That said, I certainly understand the motivations and bias of people in the industry. if you make a living out of building such nonsense boats, great to you, buy know that your job is not doing any good for the future of your kids. I personally have absolutely no respect for a Russian billionaire who made fortune by selling dirty coal.

http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/newsdes...coal-oligarchs

[gtpinhei]

If it can't move on wind, don't call it a sailing vessel.