Wooden hull for long term cruising

[the dude abides]

Destination wise is also something to consider. You will be quarantined if allowed at all in Australia with a wooden hull. So international cruising may be restricted.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by the dude abides

Destination wise is also something to consider. You will be quarantined if allowed at all in Australia with a wooden hull. So international cruising may be restricted.

Maybe, maybe not

Windrose has had extensive timber work in Thailand and came down last month for this years Sydney to Hobart

https://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/th...2019/windrose/


I know of several other vessels that are timber that have come in as well.

[CF32907]

Originally Posted by Renegde_Sailor

Aluminum is good, but it will corrode below the water line over time, once that pitting gets deep enough you will have holes in the boat that will require cutting chunks out.

The problem being that in order to repair an aluminum boat you need the aluminum that it is built from, so if you are OCONUS that can become a big deal.

So you definitely want to carry some with you.

Myself I would prefer Composite or Steel, Steel will rust if it is not painted, but it is a lot easier to find ship grade steel around the world, and it is easier to weld than Aluminum.

That being said my current boat is hand laid glass, and it might as well be an anvil it is so thick! No hull coring, an inch thick at he thinnest!



This boat will still be sailing when I am dead and gone, and I am 38!

Hi All....
I was a marine surveyor for twenty years, when I was asked what boat material is best for 0 or low maintenance, I would tell them.

1. Wood boats have rot, worms fastener problems.
2. Steel boats, you have rust, scale and electrical problems
3. Aluminum, you have five different types of corrosion and electrical problems.
4. FRP (fiberglass) You have bad deck and hull cores from leaks and blisters....

I tell people to name there poison, pick one that you know something about. For if it's perfect today, it won't be tomorrow. Unless you have copious amounts of cash, you will need to do most maintenance yourself.
Remember a Boat dollar is $100 land dollars, takes lots of boat dollars now. If some haven't checked, most marine facilities are now charging $100 - $140 an hour for labor in Florida. I imagine New England is probably 50% higher than that, that's a guess on my part.
Capt. Vince Rakstis, Ret. St.Petersburg, Fl.

[the dude abides]

Good point. I do know someone who has spent millions on a Gulet that is in Langkawi. He cannot get it in. I don't know the criteria. I only know first hand from someone who cannot get it in, and that boat is in good condition. I know that as I am based in Langkawi and have been aboard for an inspection.

[tomtriad]

Some sage advice, particularly from the experienced surveyors of wooden boats. Think of the purchase price of a boat as being the down payment. Then picture maintainance, at 10 - 15% of the purchase price per year (assuming that you've bought a boat in good structural and operating condition and you perform the majority of your own labor). After 7 years or so, you will have paid out in routine maintance as much as you did to purchase, even without a major refit of any systems. This is a best case scenario.

I owned a plank on frame boat, 25 years old, cheap, had lots of gear aboard, and kept her for 8 years in the Caribbean. Not the best for the boat as it required a month or so haulout every year to catch up on maintenance. The boat slowly deteriorated over time, and when the work days exceeded the sailing days, it was time for a new owner. I swore to never again own a wooden boat.

7 years later, bought a cold molded wood trimaran, 10 years old, sitting fallow for 3 years on a mooring in St Martin. The structure was intact - dust in the bilges and no leaks anywhere. Needed new sails, rigging, outboard motor, electronics, solar panels. Eventually, new a carbon mast with a 2nd set of sails. No systems aboard other than these. I do almost all of my own repairs and maintenance and keep records. It costs around $8,000 year, exclusive of insurance. Have now owned her for 27 years.

You can find a good deal on a well built wooden boat. I would look for a strip plank or cold molded laminated with glass inside and out. Keep any plywood edges sealed with epoxy and paint, no matter what the construction; and always bed any fasteners in epoxy to exclude water. Personally, I would steer clear of conventional plank on frame fastened with metal - those fasteners will eventually corrode and need to be replaced while allowing water to seep into the wood and weaken it. OMO

[stinkpots]

So I reply as a long time traditional wooden boat owner. I also sailed a wooden yacht from the UK to New Zealand. I am now the owner of a wooden trawler yacht - so from 40 years experience of wooden boats I would say the following:-


All boats can have their issues whatever they are built from. We sailed across the Atlantic in our wooden boat and we always admired a friends 50 foot steel boat who we often met up with on our travels. We both hauled out in Trinidad for general maintenance and they discovered they had rusted through in several places below the waterline. We were in perfect condition. So lets not start out by saying wood boats are worse than anything else.


There is wood and there is wood, different construction, different ages etc etc. There is quality well built Lloyds 100A1 wood boats and then there are disasters, as with all other boats.



Insurance
Yes, insurance is often more expensive, the older the wooden boat the harder it is to find a good insurer. Many insurance companies are scared off wood boats because as they age, if they have not been looked after, they can become a problem. Depending on the country you live in, this will be either hard or not so hard to find a good wood boat insurer. Do the research before you buy. Talk to the insurance company about any boat you are interested in BEFORE you buy, they will want to see the survey before quoting so have a clause in your purchase agreement "subject to insurance".



Maintenance
Yes, there is plenty of maintenance, I personally enjoy a very well built quality wooden boat. I have owned GRP boats as well and yes they are a lot easier to maintain, but in my traditional viewpoint they lack soul.
If you are willing to put in plenty of time in maintenance, and enjoy it, then you can reap the rewards of a classic vessel.


Survey
Absolutely essential, I was brought up with wooden boats and always do my own pre survey to decide if it is worth moving forward with the expense of a surveyor. It is essential to find a surveyor who is expert in wooden boats, they are getting harder to find. Do not even think about economizing at this stage. If you end up buying a flawed wooden boat it will be a very expensive mistake.


I love traditional wooden boats. My current boat, and the one I sailed to NZ were both built to Lloyds 100A1. A good starting point when looking to buy but no guarantee they are still good.
My current trawler yacht was built in 1972. She was built to very high standards for offshore cruising. When we bought her she was very scruffy and neglected aesthetically, however it turned out she had a 100% perfect hull and superstructure (we took he down to bare wood all over to check).


If buying an old wooden boat you have to have your eyes wide open. The beauty is, if you find a good one, you will pay a fraction of the price of a modern boat and can end up with a fantastic quality vessel.


Enjoy the hunt - it takes a long time to find the golden nugget and genuine bargain of a classic wooden vessel. I have succeeded in doing this several times in my life and thoroughly enjoyed the soul a classic wooden boat can give. My old classic 1972 trawler yacht is testimony to that.... I must rush off now as I have to go and do some (more) maintenance!


PS. The dreaded worm is kept at bay with normal anti fouling. We cruised in the tropics for years and never had a problem but we antifouled annually and kept an eye out for any underwater damage to anti fouling - we never got worm and it would have loved our mahogany planking if only it could have got in!

[CF32907]

Originally Posted by NicBeeee

Gosh, I was hoping for at least some positives to owning a wooden boat. Perhaps this is exactly the info I needed. I am not even going to mention my interest in ferro cement.

CaptVince Rakstis here, retired marine surveyor.

Even though most ferro boats were built in barns and farm yards, if the proper admixtures are used and proper hardware cloth (mesh) used, most are quite very sea worthy. Over the years, I surveyed maybe 20 ferro boats. All but one was deemed seaworthy. Even had one owner pull out a 5 pound sledge hammer, hit the side of his boat, not only was there no damage, it rang like a bell. On my research, I found ferro after aging a couple years is bell ringing hard and it continues to harden more over the years. What you want, if buying a ferro boat. A full documentation of construction. Pictures of the wire meshes used as well as sales receipts on materials, verification of admixtures and cement blend, as well as pictures and timelines for all the plastering. No cold joints, two teams start at the bow, one port, one starboard, men inside and outside of the hull all plastering at the same time, so they finish together with no cold (cured) joints anywhere in the hull.
A properly done ferro boat is probably the closest thing you can get to for a maintenance free hull.

[Poche]

Originally Posted by KJB

It is true, there is a lot of maintenance with a wooden boat. But then, if kept in proper condition, there is a lot of maintenance with any boat made of any material.

This is so very true. Unfortunately, if you neglect a wooden boat it is not quite as forgiving as a fiberglass boat under the same neglect.
I see a few very heavily built wooden vessels that would close the issue but they have their own issues. Slow performance being a big one.
Looking around our Southern California marinas wooden boats have all but disappeared but fiberglass is surviving among prevailing general neglect by owners.
The days of finding a boat slip or getting insurance for a wooden boat are very difficult to name other issues in our area. And don't think you can accept all the risks without insurance. Marinas are requiring a minimum of $300,000 liability insurance.

[Hasbeen]

I did 53,000 miles around the Pacific Islands in 19 years in a 1936 Honduras 40Ft Morgan Giles built yacht. People used to ask me what she was made of, the hull was so smooth & glossy they did not think she could be timber plank.


She was painted yearly & never had a problem with worm or rot. In places with small tides she was hauled out & I did the work, but in many places with large tidal range she was done beside jetties, swimming pools & even a wrecked Taiwanese fishing boat sitting on a beach.


As for maintenance time, the varnished cabin was given a light sand with 240 grit every 3 months, & a single coat of varnish, a days work, & it usually took 3 days to paint the bottom & topsides once a year. I spent a damn site more time on machinery & electrical maintenance than any thing else.


Out in the islands you have more chance of getting good woodwork done, than any other type of repairs. If you like wood go for it, it is not too hard to do the maintenance if you want.

[KP44]

I have owned both.
My first sailboat was a sleek, beautiful 26 foot built of cedar planks. It required a lot of maintenance; so much that I never actually sailed it. I spent all my time keeping the wood pretty and the bottom finished.
After two years of wood-work, we bought a 23 foot fiberglass sloop whose bottom was a basket case. It was covered in barnacles and the centerboard was so barnacle encrusted it would not move. I had to cut the centerboard trunk and use a hydraulic jack to lower the centerboard so I could sand it. But after 2 weeks of sanding and bottom paint, we had our first real sailboat! And minimal maintenance after that.
The wooden boat was put up for sale. After over a year I found someone who was willing to take it for free and I gave it away.

If you love wooden boats, then that is what you should have. I never want to own another wooden boat. But they are very pretty to look at. I can see why some people adore wooden boats.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by NicBeeee

...I just keep being pulled towards wooden boats.
...

I keep reading the posts on this thread, and there are a lot of really valuable advice and opinions about how to maintain a wooden boat. Great information!

But nobody seems to be interested in why the OP wants one.

It seems that knowing his reason for wanting a wooden boat would let us give better advice. Obviously if he as a hankering for working with wood then the choice makes more sense.

If he thinks he is getting in cheap, and downplaying the amount of work he's in for, I think it makes less sense.

And maybe his comment above is the tip off: Maybe he's in love with the idea, a romantic notion for sure and one which may be quickly disabused by reality.

[Poche]

Originally Posted by wingssail

And maybe his comment above is the tip off: Maybe he's in love with the idea, a romantic notion for sure and one which may be quickly disabused by reality.

If I had tons of money I would build a wooden boat and have it serviced professionally for cruising. But i do not.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Cadence

It seems wooden boats are being thrown into one bucket? Type of wood, type of planking, fasteners. Double or single planked. I'm sure I has missed many considerations. Would I want one, hell no, I'm to old.

I have a 40 year old GRP boat, I love it. But when I fantasize it's about a solid wood boat with beams and planks. Silly, I know.

But there ARE wooden boats with maintenance requirements like GRP.

Here is one:

[geoleo]

would YOU RATHER HAVE A HULL MADE OF ONE IECE- OR A HULL MADE O HUNDREDS MAYBE THOUSAND PIECES?? bOATS DO FAIL PIEC BY PEIECE,

[Poche]

Originally Posted by geoleo

would YOU RATHER HAVE A HULL MADE OF ONE IECE- OR A HULL MADE O HUNDREDS MAYBE THOUSAND PIECES?? bOATS DO FAIL PIEC BY PEIECE,

Check that keyboard it seems to be failing.