Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-12-2019, 17:52   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Boat: 50’ Bavaria
Posts: 1,473
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

I think that’s the key. Buying a wooden boat on a budget is probably a very bad plan. If you know what you’re doing, and know you have the time and money enough for ongoing maintenance then great.
__________________

Tillsbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 18:17   #17
Registered User
 
NicBeeee's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 20
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

Plenty of food for thought, interesting that some marinas have different reasons for not welcoming wooden hulls. It all seems to be a bit of a shame, but I guess also understandable.
__________________

NicBeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 20:21   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Boat: Beneteau First 375
Posts: 253
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernMac View Post
Demographic wise I’d think people who were down to own a large wooden boat would probably have more $$ and commitment, vs seeking out a boat based on what would require the least work?
Based on my admittedly limited experience, I would say that people who bought a large wooden boat did so because the initial investment was smaller for a given size boat, and totally underestimated the commitment involved.

There is a 40' Ted Hood designed wooden ocean racing yawl a block or two from where I live, a thoroughbred at the time it was built. The owner has been restoring it for the past 15 years or so, at untold expense, not even able to keep up with ongoing decay. It hasn't sailed once in all that time.
sandy stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 20:50   #19
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Whitby, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 4,037
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernMac View Post
Demographic wise I’d think people who were down to own a large wooden boat would probably have more $$ and commitment, vs seeking out a boat based on what would require the least work?
My experience is that a very very few wooden boat buyers know what they are getting into and often purchase what they see as a bargain. It is hearbreaking to see these people whirling down a financial toilet.

I have often found it difficult to get buyers to understand the scope of what they are getting into....... none of them do it twice.

It takes a very rare, dedicated wooden boat person with unlimited time, skil, knowledge and money to keep these old boats alive.
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 21:09   #20
Registered User
 
NicBeeee's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 20
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

Gosh, I was hoping for at least some positives to owning a wooden boat. Perhaps this is exactly the info I needed. I am not even going to mention my interest in ferro cement.
NicBeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 21:19   #21
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Whitby, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 4,037
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicBeeee View Post
Gosh, I was hoping for at least some positives to owning a wooden boat. Perhaps this is exactly the info I needed. I am not even going to mention my interest in ferro cement.
wise.
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 21:37   #22
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 2,394
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

We have 60ft of timber, no brightwork, all paint and solid colours

Maintenance for sure but there is on any boat
They all need antifouling, engine and gearbox maintenance, system repairs and on a sailing vessel rig repairs.

Worm? Apparently not a problem as long as the antifouling and bottom work is done in a timely manner, Zero evidence of worm or putty bug on our 30+ year old hull.
We probably spend an extra day on the hard prepping the hull prior to antifouling compared to a plastic boat. (We don't do bottom work, we pay to have it done)

Rot is a factor in areas above the water that have been damaged and neglected.
For us it was the plywood decks that were soft in spots due to very light glass layer being compromised and not repaired.
Plenty of plastic boats also have ply cored decks and associated problems.
Easy enough for me to cut out and replace sections as required with quality marine ply, epoxy and heavier layer of glass at my leisure and while living aboard.
Underneath the ply was the original planked decking all in good condition.

Saying that, in the 40ft sailing range you are spoilt for choice with an abundance of cheap plastic boats.
We were not.
I personally would not buy timber if spoilt for choice.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 21:42   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Bay of Islands New Zealand
Boat: Morgan 44 CC
Posts: 447
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

If you’re planning on staying out of the tropics things may be OK but in warmer temperatures teredo worm has been problematic. That said, the Baltic Sea isn’t exactly tropical either. This clip from Wikipedia:

“Teredo navalis is a very destructive pest of submerged timber. In the Baltic Sea, pine trees can become riddled with tunnels within 16 weeks of being in the water and oaks within 32 weeks, with whole trees 30 centimetres (12 in) in diameter being completely destroyed within a year. Ships' timbers are attacked, wrecks destroyed and sea defences damaged.”

It’s the main reason why expensive and commercial vessels back in the days of wooden ships were skinned on the outside below the waterline with copper. Those ships are mostly gone but teredo worm has not.

Not that it would stop me buying a wooden boat if the condition was acceptable and the price was right. I was once years ago privileged to spend a few nights on a vessel named Wanderer V that was the last boat to be cruised by Eric and Susan Hiscock (it had just been purchased for song by probably the 3rd or 4th owner). The boat was built in triple laminated kauri timber, in spectacular condition and was like a piece of artwork down below.
CassidyNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 21:51   #24
Registered User
 
NicBeeee's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 20
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by CassidyNZ View Post
If you’re planning on staying out of the tropics things may be OK but in warmer temperatures teredo worm has been problematic. That said, the Baltic Sea isn’t exactly tropical either. This clip from Wikipedia:

“Teredo navalis is a very destructive pest of submerged timber. In the Baltic Sea, pine trees can become riddled with tunnels within 16 weeks of being in the water and oaks within 32 weeks, with whole trees 30 centimetres (12 in) in diameter being completely destroyed within a year. Ships' timbers are attacked, wrecks destroyed and sea defences damaged.”

It’s the main reason why expensive and commercial vessels back in the days of wooden ships were skinned on the outside below the waterline with copper. Those ships are mostly gone but teredo worm has not.

Not that it would stop me buying a wooden boat if the condition was acceptable and the price was right. I was once years ago privileged to spend a few nights on a vessel named Wanderer V that was the last boat to be cruised by Eric and Susan Hiscock (it had just been purchased for song by probably the 3rd or 4th owner). The boat was built in triple laminated kauri timber, in spectacular condition and was like a piece of artwork down below.
Kauri wood, probably the most beautiful timber and trees around.
NicBeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 21:59   #25
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
Boat: 47' Steel Roberts Cutter
Posts: 322
Wooden hull for long term cruising

Don’t let the naysayers put you off it entirely, mate. It absolutely CAN be a wonderful, fulfilling, enjoyable AND financially feasible prospect to own a wooden boat.

I’ve owned several, from a 16’ home built ‘weekender’ (popular science special that I built with my dad when I was 13), to a 24’ plywood cross tri; to a lapstrake folk boat, then to a 38’ double ended ketch; along with any number of punts, rowboats, dories and canoes in between. The last two Bigger boats I essentially rebuilt during the tenure of ownership, and managed to sell on for very good prices in very good shape. Oh, and I grew up on my parents boat- a 1916 vintage, 75’ Abeking and Rasmussen ‘gentlemen’s yacht’; which in my experience - while stunningly beautiful and a thoroughbred offshore racer- was perpetually near sinking and a monster to manage. We owned it 30 years- and they were wonderful years for me as I learned seamanship, independence, craftsmanship and life- but they nearly bankrupted my poor parents several times. Me mum is still paying off that debt at 72; after dads untimely death from cancer. So- don’t do this- it was the purview of ‘60’s sea Gypsies and hopeless romantics... unless you have extremely deep pockets.

But I say again- it CAN be done well, and in fact there are some incredible deals on wooden boats out there.

Not to say that this is the norm- quite the opposite in fact is the norm- which is why you’re hearing this heavily weighted advice to not consider wooden boats. Also, the fact you’re asking the question here on a forum will suggest you are fairly new to the concept and have much to learn... but this is not a bad thing! It just may bring about a few overly protective responses...

To make wooden boat ownership work, you have to start with a good boat. This is the most important step. Buying a wreck will absolutely wreck you, regardless of skill or wealth.

Once you have a good boat, then you either have deep pockets and hire good people and pay them well; or have a lot of time, patience and significant ability with tools and building. You also need great friends, and willing assistants- which are usually not hard to find in and around wooden boats.

I was the latter- I found good solid boats, learned the skills (made a crap ton of mistakes along the way- it’s ok... wood is very forgiving); and had a ball. Oh, and boy did I have great friends and family who supported me too. This is not something that you want to do on your own really. At least I didn’t.

Wouldn’t have done anything different. Well, maybe some things. But they weren’t huge.

Anyway- it can be done. And is worth doing. Absolutely worth it- wooden boats are a beautiful, organic, ecologically sound alternative to the mass produced, ecologically toxic boats you see out there today.

And- if it well kept and looks tidy; I promise you that not only will you never lack for a spot to tie up, you will find that you end up in the most fascinating conversations with strangers who come to admire the artistry and beauty of a wooden boat. This is no small bonus- it is a major contributor to pleasure in life, in my experience.

I’m now sailing a steel boat- and this is because I am aiming to go high latitude and will likely bump into sharp bits along the way... and I can tell you I don’t get anywhere near the welcome in harbours that I used to when I sailed in my trim double-ended ketch and rounded up all standing. But, for what I plan to do, it is a compromise I currently accept.

I am sure there will be another wooden boat in my future tho.

Best of luck-
NSboatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 22:07   #26
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 2,394
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by CassidyNZ View Post
If you’re planning on staying out of the tropics things may be OK but in warmer temperatures teredo worm has been problematic. That said, the Baltic Sea isn’t exactly tropical either. This clip from Wikipedia:

“Teredo navalis is a very destructive pest of submerged timber. In the Baltic Sea, pine trees can become riddled with tunnels within 16 weeks of being in the water and oaks within 32 weeks, with whole trees 30 centimetres (12 in) in diameter being completely destroyed within a year. Ships' timbers are attacked, wrecks destroyed and sea defences damaged.”

It’s the main reason why expensive and commercial vessels back in the days of wooden ships were skinned on the outside below the waterline with copper. Those ships are mostly gone but teredo worm has not.

Not that it would stop me buying a wooden boat if the condition was acceptable and the price was right. I was once years ago privileged to spend a few nights on a vessel named Wanderer V that was the last boat to be cruised by Eric and Susan Hiscock (it had just been purchased for song by probably the 3rd or 4th owner). The boat was built in triple laminated kauri timber, in spectacular condition and was like a piece of artwork down below.
Poor timber choice causes problems.
In Australia, most pine and Kauri are considered poor choices.

We are almost exclusively spotted gum
Timber species suitability to boat building below
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.JPG
Views:	106
Size:	75.7 KB
ID:	204322  
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 01:11   #27
Registered User
 
Fore and Aft's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Gympie
Boat: Volkscruiser
Posts: 1,000
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

Nicbeee I think the biggest issue is finding a well built and maintained timber yacht. They are all just getting so old and like Boatpoker said it’s a fastening issue more than anything. But in saying that I have a client who got 5000? Silicone bronze counter sunk bolts and nuts made in China and he carefully knocked out every copper nail in his 1930s double ended yacht and drove a bolt in its place. The bolts were a fraction larger than the copper nails so they were a snug fit. I could find no fault with that method when I surveyed his yacht.
With a timber yacht do you want a fine furniture finish or work boat finish? My old mans trawler was sound but rough as. Every year we would be at the hardware store buying the cheapest white oil based paint and splashing it on every exterior surface.(You ever seen a reluctant teenager with a 4 inch paint brush) Maybe some caulking below the waterline then new antifoul and that would be it for the year. We fished that boat hard and anyone who is half handy could have maintained her.
Check out this website and book. Both make for excellent reading.
https://www.abebooks.com/book-search...-boatbuilding/
https://saltandtar.org/
Cheers
Fore and Aft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 01:44   #28
Registered User
 
Sojourner's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: On the boat!
Boat: SY Wake: 53' Amel Super Maramu
Posts: 813
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicBeeee View Post
Not to worried about the maintenance side of things as I quite enjoy it. (easy to say before the event I know)
And I'm not too worried about you not having more than enough maintenance to do on ANY boat you buy, GRP included Seriously, there are so many systems on a boat (engine, hydraulics, electrics, software, plumbing, painting, teakwork, rigging, sail repair, bonding, heating system, outboard engine repair, maintaining other ancillary gear like dive compressors and regulators, drones, camera/video software...as well as keeping the working things polished, vacuumed, cleaned, laundered, folded, etc....plus fishing and cooking....the list is literally endless, and I assume you like to sleep from time to time) that I wouldn't add a wooden hull to that equation unless you also have several clones of you to boss around

EDIT: And just rereading this as it posted, I forgot: solar system, wind gen, battery/charging system, gas oven work, carpentry, upholstery, corrosion control, fuel polishing system..... I haven't even got up from the setee to walk around our boat. You don't want me to start listing my TO DO list either....
__________________
3 cats, 3 queers, endless wake, endless love!
https://www.facebook.com/anendlesswake/
https://anendlesswake.com/
Sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 03:05   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,192
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicBeeee View Post
Gosh, I was hoping for at least some positives to owning a wooden boat. Perhaps this is exactly the info I needed. I am not even going to mention my interest in ferro cement.
A nice wooden boat is a beautiful work of art. That's about the only positive I can come up with.

After that, pretty much everything says don't do it. From what I've seen, the vast majority of wooden boat buyers we've met, didn't realize what they were getting into or spent 90% of the time maintaining and 10% with the boat actually on the water.

Yes, fiberglass can have issues but it's an order of magnitude less and say you get a bit of rot in a cored fiberglass deck...it's not a good thing but odds are you can safely use the boat for years. Fix it, when you get around to it. Most fiberglass boats don't have coring below the waterline.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 03:49   #30
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 2,394
Re: Wooden hull for long term cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
A nice wooden boat is a beautiful work of art. That's about the only positive I can come up with.

After that, pretty much everything says don't do it. From what I've seen, the vast majority of wooden boat buyers we've met, didn't realize what they were getting into or spent 90% of the time maintaining and 10% with the boat actually on the water.
.
Well, if they are trying to keep it looking like a work of art you are correct.

If on the other hand you treat it like a boat and use it as such the numbers are reversed.
For us, with full time usage thats 2 weeks every 2 years out of the water and the rest of the time being used.
I expect that to drop down to one week every two years soon.
About the same turnaround as any other boat.

Quote:
. Yes, fiberglass can have issues but it's an order of magnitude less and say you get a bit of rot in a cored fiberglass deck...it's not a good thing but odds are you can safely use the boat for years. Fix it, when you get around to it
And why would it be any different for a timber boat?
Same deck, same construction, same people walking on it.
__________________

Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruising, hull, long term cruising

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Long term sailboat storage near Long Island Sound Joe500 General Sailing Forum 3 29-08-2016 12:14
Long Term Refit – Cradle, motor, hull paint Questions Patrol Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 02-07-2012 05:01
Considering Overall Cost of Long-Term Cruising mshipman Dollars & Cents 18 20-09-2010 15:47
Motor or No Motor for Long-Term Cruising? boatyard Pirate Construction, Maintenance & Refit 41 02-08-2009 21:13
Wanted - Long term cruising companion ccannan Crew Archives 0 21-06-2003 08:23

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:33.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.