Winged Keel - deal breaker?

[jimp1234]

Based on my budget I’ve been looking at some older boats. I’ve found a few Ericson’s that I like but the ones in the best shape have winged keels. I’ve read a lot of the threads concerning winged vs. full keels and I know that I’m losing some sailing performance with a winged keel. Bruce King, Ericson’s designer is well regarded so I’m assuming his wing keels are reasonably well designed. I’d prefer a full keel but finding an older boat in decent condition has been a challenge. So my question, particularly directed to folks who’ve sailed on boats with wing keels, is if you found a boat in good condition, and the only negative was a winged keel, would that be a deal breaker for you? TIA

[AiniA]

Hard to know what to say without knowing what you want to do with the boat - race it, coastal cruise, offshore cruise.

[MicHughV]

The biggest drawback of a winged keel, is when you peg into the bottom when running aground.
A fin keel could probably be wiggled loose, heeled over or backed out, etc, but a winged keel does not offer such potential options.

[jimp1234]

Originally Posted by AiniA

Hard to know what to say without knowing what you want to do with the boat - race it, coastal cruise, offshore cruise.

Thanks for responding. No racing, coastal cruising, and some offshore cruising.

[sailorboy1]

Winged keel is a performance plus, not a negative

do some research

[psk125]

Winged keels help provide a smoother ride because of the damping action of their wings. They also permit shallower draft, which can be useful for getting into smaller harbors and anchorages. The increased surface area does increase drag however, so a winged-keel version of any production boat will be slower than its standard-keel sister ship. Standard keels also perform better than winged keels when beating to windward. PHRF ratings nationwide reflect this. If you're going cruising and like to gunkhole, a winged keel might be just the thing. Just don't drive it into the mud.

[CarlF]

For cruising I would prefer a winged keel. Less draft for very little performance penalty. In some sea conditions the wing actually reduces leeway improving windward performance a bit.


If you want more performance, a folding or feathering prop makes a much bigger difference. And, of course, new sails.

[MicHughV]

I think one must define what a "winged keel" is, as these come in many shapes, sizes and configurations.
In general, a winged keel provides an option to increase the "weight" of a "shoal draft" keel, which in turn provides stability. "Wings" off course, are not found on deep draft keels. Neither are they found on centerboard type keels.

Having a bulb on the bottom of your shoal draft keel does much the same thing, ie, provide "weight" down low.

While a keel x-section can be made " thicker" which in turn increases the weight, a thick keel does not lend itself to optimum water flow past the keel, and having the weight distributed over the entire x-section is not as efficient as having the weight concentrated down low. Your classic Vendee race boat has, in a "sense" the optimum keel configuration, ie, deep and thin for efficiency with a large torpedo shaped bulb on the bottom for stability.
This would not work for a B'mas bound cruiser.

And one must think of this. A sailboats' motion thru' the water is not uniform. The boat will pitch up and down with each wave and also be heeled to one side, so any " foil" aspect of the wing is largely negated.
If a plane were to fly in the fashion as described above, it will likely fall from the sky.

At the end of the day, a winged keel is little more than an effort to concentrate the weight down low, and any hydrodynamic improvement in keel performance is wishful thinking at best.

To sum up, you'll get "shoal draft" at the expense of "performance" and also have to live with the fact that running this type of keel aground may be challenging to get off again.

[jimp1234]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses. I can appreciate the benefit of a shoal or in this case winged keel in a shallow anchorage but I'm trying to gauge the downside for long ocean passage making. So if that's a big part of my plans would I be defeating my purpose buying a winged keel boat, even if the boat were an "8 out of 10" overall. Here's a picture of a winged keel on one of the boats I'm interested in. Not sure how to gauge the size and shape. The draft is 5 feet according to the broker. TIA

[MicHughV]

Imagine hitting bottom with that keel ???

Those wings will act like a plough. Remember that the boat is likely to tip forward the moment you hit bottom, ensuring those wings get a good crack at embedding themselves.
Simply can't see you making a case for have a winged keel on long ocean passages.

Another thing to consider. At anchorage you may find yourself in a wind against tide or alternately in a changing tide situation, which means your anchor line will be plastered along the side of your hull, and that anchor rode has a good chance of getting entangled with those wings and even causing the anchor to be tripped.
Those wings can easily interfere with this situation.

Simply cannot understand why you are even willing to consider this type of keel at all ?

But hey, it's your choice.

[Montanan]

One could simply cut the wings off and be wingless.

[donradcliffe]

A friend who sailed across the Pacific sold his wing keeled boat in NZ. He said that the wing had a mind of its own off the wind in heavy air. If may not have been as dramatic as in a foiled boat, but the wings tended to drive the boat under.

A fixed underwater foil is inherently unstable. I learned that lesson the hard way when we tried to put one on a water ski.

[Cheechako]

I would have no issue with a mild winged keel. As long as the wing isn't real big. Your pic looks pretty big to me.
But: "I’ve read a lot of the threads concerning winged vs. full keels and I know that I’m losing some sailing performance with a winged keel."
I dont think any full keel will be better performance than your average wing keel.

[MicHughV]

Wings on a production sailboat are a bit of a "fad" in my opinion.
Besides my opinion as noted above, I don't think your average 40' sailboat can go fast enough to produce any noticeable "lift" from foils.
Speaking of which, those winged foils are relatively small and stubby in surface area compared to the overall displacement/weight of a boat.

Though the latest variant of foils on the America's cup boats are small, those boats need to be moving at around 20 knots to get sufficient lift from the foils to lift the hull out of the water.

The latest crop of 2024 Vendee boats with their esoteric winged foils also need to move at some speed to generate sufficient lift to start planing.

The short stubby little wings seen on some monohulls have little....if any ....value and as pointed out above...may even be a detriment to open ocean sailing.

[JPA Cate]

Downsides to anticipate with a winged keel might include easier surface area for snagging lobster and crab pots.

I only have experience with fin keel boats, so not what the OP is asking for. I'm thinking if he can afford the boat and it is in good condition, maybe it would be worth experimenting with.

@donradcliffe: would the wing always try to drive the bow down, or would the effect be lessened by slowing the boat down? TIA, Don.

Ann