"Win" a Rhodes 40' Sloop: Siskiwit

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by reed1v

If it smells too good, it probably is.

Very true.

To me, it doesn't sound good cos it's a great way to "buy" a boat you can't afford
And even if you can, it's just a way to lose $150 and why not just buy a boat the normal way?

Having said all that, I think it's fairly easy to check if he's for real. But since I'm not interested or even eligible, I'm not going to

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by NorthernSeaWolf

Has anyone looked into this? It's an essay contest accepting a maximum of 900 entries; the prize is the Siskiwit with some extras. Contestants pay an entry fee ($125, $150 after Nov 22) and need to have about $13K available for estimated taxes due by February 2016, when possession would transfer.

I'm not eligible... apparently you need to be a US Citizen, of which I'm not. I've never seen anything like this before, and I've been planning for my s/v for a few years now - wasn't sure if anyone else had.

Here's the link:
Siskiwit | WIN a Rhodes Offshore 40' Sloop | Classic Cheoy Lee

Thoughts?

Why would anyone assume this is a scam? Sounds to me like the guy has had or expects trouble fetching his price. If this raffle is successful, he will get his money and one lucky entrant will get his boat. All others had the enjoyment of participating at the "chance" to win a boat for little money.

Lets not be overly paranoid folks.

[jtallen2489]

I have seen this with houses

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Why would anyone assume this is a scam? Sounds to me like the guy has had or expects trouble fetching his price. If this raffle is successful, he will get his money and one lucky entrant will get his boat. All others had the enjoyment of participating at the "chance" to win a boat for little money.

Lets not be overly paranoid folks.

You just proved W.C. Field's advice and P.T. Barnum's theory all in one paragraph. Very good. Still, such lotteries are illegal.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Still, such lotteries are illegal.

Is it a lottery or raffle?

The best essay wins, so it's not a "buy a ticket" deal.
Not even sure which Dutch law(s) would apply, let alone which US laws

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

Is it a lottery or raffle?

The best essay wins, so it's not a "buy a ticket" deal.
Not even sure which Dutch law(s) would apply, let alone which US laws

where these scams have gone to court, the government decided it was a way around gambling laws and thus illegal gambling operations if not complete scams. Kind of in the same ballpark as those who say the income tax is not constitution and therefore you do not need to pay income tax. Again, the duck test rules.

[Lizzy Belle]

My question was not "is it a scam or not", but simply what laws apply when it's all based on 'the best essay' and not a ticket of some sort.

When you say "where these scams have gone to court", do you mean a (honest) contest set up just like this one and the courts decided it was a 'scam' because it's simply not allowed to run a contest like this?

(English is not my first language, and "scam" to me = fake - as in, I'm going to take your money and never give you the prize.)

[M. Schweizer]

It is certainly a real contest. The boat is well-known in the Rhodes Offshore/Cheoy Lee owners group. I actually was looking at another Cheoy Lee for sale, and while doing my research this one often came up (before the contest). One day it came up in my Facebook feed as being offered as an essay contest and I almost died! It is a beautiful boat. I have not seen it up close, but have seen the documented work done on it, and it seems to have all been properly done. As someone said, it would be very easy for someone to check out the owner, and also he posted recently on FB that the boat can be shown by the broker, which is listed on the site. He also posted that you can verify that the escrow account is being set up with the boatyard through the broker. I want to be clear- I am in no way affiliated and do not know the owner, but I am really excited about the contest.


Someone mentioned that there was recently a B&B in Maine that was "sold" this same way. Ironically, the couple who won that B&B lived in St. John, and I live in St. Thomas, so I heard a lot about it. I did not enter that contest because I wasn't moving to Maine (It's cold there), didn't have the money for all the upkeep and taxes, and I believe the B&B was in an area that only has tourism a couple of months a year, so it would be hard to make money, which I am sure is why they were "giving" it away (of course they got money for it, but I mean in lieu of selling it the normal way.)


With Siskiwit, I can see why he has trouble selling it. It is a GORGEOUS boat, with which I am in love, but it's not a boat that most people are in the market for. It takes a very special buyer. It's a 1969 boat. It has very little navigation/electronic equipment. It is a rare layout for this vessel, and not the normal "three cabin" layout. Many reasons that it may be slower to sell. That said, I really like the layout, and am in love with the Rhodes Offshore 40. I was quick to enter, and when I win I will be sure to come back here and say "Nah nah nah nyaaaaa nyaaaaa!!!!" hahaha! (read in good humor)


Seriously, though, as someone pointed out, even winning the boat you still have to pony up for $13k in taxes, and I believe that may be even higher. For me the boat plus the POSSIBLE $45k escrow (if he gets all the 900 entries- read the rules for explanation- you get another $45k to fix her up) would put me in the 30% tax bracket. I would probably have to pay about $30k when it is all said and done in taxes. For me that's still a deal- $30k for a beautiful boat plus (assuming maximum entries) $45k to even further fix her up. I am hoping he gets at least the 450 entries required to complete the contest, and it would be great if he gets the full 900 in order to have the escrow account as well.


I love how he is doing this contest. He loves the boat, and he wants it to be passed on to someone who will equally love the boat. As a person who builds wooden boats, I totally respect and understand that. Surely people on this forum will as well. We recently bought and restored an 1836 home in the VI. The owner had turned down an offer from someone who wanted to make it into apartments because he just loved the house and wanted it kept original. When I made a reasonable but lower than asked offer, he took it because he knew I would care for the house. He stops by now and then to check on it, and I respect that. I can tell this guy loves SISKIWIT, and he wants her to go to a proper owner, and he wants her to be cared for. The escrow account allows the new owner to fit her out properly for cruising. If you read the fine print in the rules, the winner is required first to use the money to fix anything that comes up in a survey. The winner is also required to own her for at least one year and to keep the name SISKIWIT for at least one year. I believe he just loves the boat, and wants her to get a good home. A good home is not always with the guy who has the most money. Also, yes- he gets the sale price he wanted for the boat as well.


Again, I am not affiliated with the contest, but I did enter because I love the boat and I'm okay with the taxes that I will have to pay should... oops.... I mean WHEN I win. (Positive thought!) That said, I do have a knack for writing, and I poured my heart into the essay. When you really want something, you go out and make it happen.


As for the legalities, I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me that making it an essay contest makes it NOT a lottery or raffle. As said, this was recently done with a house in Maine, and at least for that one I know someone did win, because they lived in St. John and there were a lot of local news stories done about it.


Anyway, that's my $.02

[reed1v]

The last heard about the Maine b&b was a series of lawsuits were filed. Then the whole thing disappeared from our local news. The cheoy lee rhodes knockoff needs more ballast to keep her on her feet. Another issue you might want to consider is how you will service the engine since its buried into a difficult to access locker in the stern berth. Great sailing boat, but again needs more ballast unless you like sailing on your side.

[M. Schweizer]

Originally Posted by reed1v

The last heard about the Maine b&b was a series of lawsuits were filed. Then the whole thing disappeared from our local news. The cheoy lee rhodes knockoff needs more ballast to keep her on her feet. Another issue you might want to consider is how you will service the engine since its buried into a difficult to access locker in the stern berth. Great sailing boat, but again needs more ballast unless you like sailing on your side.

Well, I do love to sail heeled over!

I did not hear about the lawsuits with the Maine B&B. That's too bad. I do not know the winners personally, but I know of them. (Small island) They seemed like nice folks. I wonder who filed the lawsuit??? Someone who didn't win, or was it the winner didn't get what they thought? I need to ask around and see if anyone has heard the story. We call it the "coconut telegraph"- word gets around fast.

SISKIWIT is not the three-cabin, but the engine is similarly buried. Where the nav station for the tri-cabin is there is instead a galley, and the engine is under that. The one thing I don't like about the layout of SISKIWIT is that you have to step over the galley every time you enter. That said, the layout is much more open and gives a roomier feel. It's kind of a six of one, half-a-dozen of the other kind of thing.

Part of the Rhodes Offshore 40 design is that the hull shape, although giving a shorter waterline, offers more waterline when heeled, and the hull is efficient in a heeled moment. I love the overhang, the rocker, and the freeboard, and although she may heel, she will keep you dry.

Right now in St. Thomas, MORNINGSTAR is for sale- another Cheoy Lee version of the Rhodes Offshore 40, but with the tri-cabin layout. She needs a LOT of work, but would make someone a beautiful boat if they had the time and the money.

[44'cruisingcat]

No need to enter contests like this when we all get our millions from dead royalty in Nigeria that we didn't know we were related to.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by reed1v

The last heard about the Maine b&b was a series of lawsuits were filed. Then the whole thing disappeared from our local news. The cheoy lee rhodes knockoff needs more ballast to keep her on her feet. Another issue you might want to consider is how you will service the engine since its buried into a difficult to access locker in the stern berth. Great sailing boat, but again needs more ballast unless you like sailing on your side.

She is designed to heel, to gain more water line. I believe the info in sailboatdata is incorrect, the 2900# would be way too light for her. Not many boats can stay upright with a ballast to displacement ratio of 13.87. This site may help:
Rhodes Reliant and Offshore 40 History and Accomplishments
Yes she was an unapproved use of Rhodes' design as I recall. I believe the Bounty II had iron ballast originally, perhaps for its entire run, the Pearson Rhodes 41 had lead, and I thought the Cheoy Lee also had lead but according to sailboatdata and the above site, it had encapsulated iron. Any owners out there who can confirm it? That particular Rhodes design is also one of the few I drool over. Yes, the engine is in a tight spot, but who uses an engine anyway?

[rognvald]

So . . . I suppose the one with the best essay wins the contest, right? Perhaps even a close friend or relative with excellent communicative skills might want to try . . . I wonder how that would work out?

[LLCoolDave]

An interesting way to sell a boat. Simply put, this is a writing contest and the prize happens to be a sailboat. People win prize money and college scholarships on essays all the time. Hence it is not a raffle/game of chance/gambling. I imagine some of them you even need to pay an entry fee.

Not really my type of boat, too much wood/maintenance above deck.

There would definitely need to be some transparency before I would enter. There is some verifiable information if you wanted to do the legwork.

The website states that all relatives and the affiliated boat yard employees are banned from entering....

" The essay contest may be entered by any U.S. citizen who is eighteen years of age or older. The judges of the contest and current owner of the vessel and employees of Bennett Brothers Yachts and their immediate families, members of all forms of media (including but not limited to TV, Radio, Online and newspaper) are disqualified and may not enter this contest. Multiple unique entries, with multiple fees, by an individual are acceptable. Each entry must be submitted separately. - See more at: http://siskiwit.com/essay_details.php#contest "

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by M. Schweizer

Well, I do love to sail heeled over!

I did not hear about the lawsuits with the Maine B&B. That's too bad. I do not know the winners personally, but I know of them. (Small island) They seemed like nice folks. I wonder who filed the lawsuit??? Someone who didn't win, or was it the winner didn't get what they thought? I need to ask around and see if anyone has heard the story. We call it the "coconut telegraph"- word gets around fast.

SISKIWIT is not the three-cabin, but the engine is similarly buried. Where the nav station for the tri-cabin is there is instead a galley, and the engine is under that. The one thing I don't like about the layout of SISKIWIT is that you have to step over the galley every time you enter. That said, the layout is much more open and gives a roomier feel. It's kind of a six of one, half-a-dozen of the other kind of thing.

Part of the Rhodes Offshore 40 design is that the hull shape, although giving a shorter waterline, offers more waterline when heeled, and the hull is efficient in a heeled moment. I love the overhang, the rocker, and the freeboard, and although she may heel, she will keep you dry.

Right now in St. Thomas, MORNINGSTAR is for sale- another Cheoy Lee version of the Rhodes Offshore 40, but with the tri-cabin layout. She needs a LOT of work, but would make someone a beautiful boat if they had the time and the money.

Rhodes designed some sweet hulls. the tri cabin is pure genius. We prefer smaller areas in a sailboat since there are more handholds and more privacy for crew.