Why Not a C&C ?

[sjs]

Like many, I am looking for my next boat and am torn between the older, stouter, prettier classics with good storage and tankage, and the modern production designs that are more responsive at sail in light air and have more light and ventilation below.

I'm not that wed to creature comforts so creature comforts below decks other than ventilation and light are not terribly important to me. Though I enjoy them, I don't need AC, stereo, chartplotters, generators, radar, autopilot, etc. I would like hot and cold pressure water, and I doubt I want the issues brought by refridgeration, but I would enjoy that convenience. So much of the modern appointments are not a big issue for me.

I have owned or bareboat chartered many of the modernish (i.e., fin keel and spade rudder, light displacement) production boats and my favorite was an old C&C 25 with which I cruised much of the Chesapeake for several years. A bit spartan and rigged for racing but I was content with my comfort level and loved the sailing qualities, and overall construction and design quality.

I have cruised with sizes from 21' to 47', including Bahia cat, Island Packet SP Cruiser, Nauticat, Hunters, Catalinas, Pearsons, O'Days, Junneaus, Beneteaus, etc. and prefer smaller boats as a singlehander. I am looking for a single handed liveaboard for coastal cruising the east coast, both ICW and outside, and maybe the Bahamas as well, but probably not.

My question is because I see very little discussion of C&C's on this forum other than the Landfall, which is larger than the 28-34 foot size I am considering.

I am aware of some construction issues for older boats, the fact that most C&C's are rigged for racing and are raced hard and the small tankage on them. I had no past problem with tankage on boats because my cruising has been mostly the Chesapeake, parts of New England and the BVI's and a dock with water and fuel was always close by.

My problem is my experience crusing, though covering over 40 years, has never been for periods longer than a week, two at most. I am now considering full time liveaboard cruising, but coastal and, to the extent I predict well, in fair weather.

Given those parameters, is there anything wrong with an older C&C that has been well maintained, rigged for singlehanding and in the thirtyish foot range, or will tankage and other issues prove it to be a bad choice for a liveaboard?

Thanks for any assistance.

[GordMay]

Maggie & I happily lived aboard (full time) & cruised aboard our C&C29 (28-'6" loa) for 10 years.
Notwithstanding, the boat suffered from the drawbacks you mention.

[sailorboy1]

Nothing wrong in general with a C&C over any other older boat (need a survey). You already know of the limited fuel tankage. Other than that I think you need to review the C&C in regard to what's going to happen when you load it up with stuff and add the weight to what's more racer boat than a cruiser. You also need to think a little about comfort. I learned to sail on C&C 36, fast but low freeboard that had a rail way down underway and 20 degree heel.

To me the comfort factor would rule out a C&C other than a Landfill model. Since you have 40 years experience you are probably not a kid anymore and should think about this some.

[Sailorcanuck]

I've owned 3 C&C's (24, 29, 32) and I heartily agree with your thoughts. I strongly encourage you to look at a C&C 32. They are more stoutly built than many others in the line and they are truly a joy to sail and to live on. Look for a later model year version (1983 or preferably 1984) since the later versions came with Yanmar 2GM's, propane galley, hot water tank, and refrigeration. Earlier versions had an Atomic 4, alcohol galley, no hot water, and ice box.

We raced ours a bit in club racing and it made us look pretty good. We also really liked the always up dinette table and found that the boat swallowed up our gear and provisions with ease.

Bob
(current boat Hanse 371 - really like it)

[sjs]

Thanks guys.

Gord, mind telling me the areas you cruised with your C&C? The way I cruise I seldom need to refuel but topping off the water will be a frequent requirement. Its not an issue on a short cruise and water is always free when you stop for fuel but I don't know how expensive or inconvenent it would be to stop just for water on the ICW.

Don, I think you raise a good point. I am fairly fit for my 61 years but certainly not as spry as I used to be. I have been using thoughtful anticipation to compensate for less athleticism but the day will come when that does not work. I still do enjoy seeing the lee rail awash but that may change before long.

Sailorcanuck, I will check out the 83 and later 32 footers. That may address the issue of stowage and the risk of sailing too heavy and losing the very sailing qualities that make C&C's so lovely to some of us.

[Doodles]

I think they are fine boats and a good value. Friend of ours picked up C&C 36 on the Chesapeake Bay for $15K last year, then put some sweat and about $10-15K in it. He's already taken it down the ICW to the Keys for the winter and returned. Not bad for less than $30K invested.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by sjs

Thanks guys.

Gord, mind telling me the areas you cruised with your C&C? The way I cruise I seldom need to refuel but topping off the water will be a frequent requirement. Its not an issue on a short cruise and water is always free when you stop for fuel but I don't know how expensive or inconvenent it would be to stop just for water on the ICW.

Don, I think you raise a good point. I am fairly fit for my 61 years but certainly not as spry as I used to be. I have been using thoughtful anticipation to compensate for less athleticism but the day will come when that does not work. I still do enjoy seeing the lee rail awash but that may change before long.

Sailorcanuck, I will check out the 83 and later 32 footers. That may address the issue of stowage and the risk of sailing too heavy and losing the very sailing qualities that make C&C's so lovely to some of us.

Sailed from Lake Superior down to Bahamas - then back & forth, Florida to Bahamas for 9 years.

I counted a small watermaker (Pur PS35) as my personal luxury - saved many trips lugging water jugs. Don't recall ever watering on the ICW, but may have. Certainly never stopped just for water.

Carried about 20 - 25 gallons of diesel on deck, doubling our fuel capacity. This was a significant pain (in the ass); but we understood we were on a small boat.

HTH
Gord

[Drumroll30]

sjs, I have a 1988 30 Mk II the last generation of Canadian C&C's, I'm very happy with it after 10 years of ownership. Like most C&C's the performance is great. Tankage is more that ample for a 30 footer : fuel 20 gals, water 53 gals (6 hot) and holding 33 gals. Though most are now over 20 years old they still don't come cheap, on Yachtworld prices range from 45 to 55 grand US. I like the boat so much that if I won a lottery I would still keep it as a second boat.

[sjs]

Thanks, helpful info. My impression is the original C&C's are better but I don't know that to be true as a fact.

I know they went into receivership in the mid-80's but I don't know the timeline when they are considered to have changed as to quality. Is there a particular year as a line of demarcation between the "better" older boats and the newer? Or, are the newer boats considered just as good, just different?

[Drumroll30]

I think the newer (don't forget we're still talking 20+ years old) are just as good as the old ones, interior fit and finish even better. I have expirience with C&C's, I used to own a 1984 29 Mk II and my dad had a 27 Mk III that he bought new in 1975. I think that C&C went through receivership several times in the 80's, the builders plate on my boat read C&C Yachts Limited Partnership. The last generation of Canadian boats i.e 30 Mk II, 34+ and 37+ were geared to compete with the onslaught on french built aft cabin boats. All the hardware is big and top notch Harken, Lewmar and Barient. The mast on my 30 is a powerful Offshore Spars double spreader with Navtec rod rigging, almost identical in size as the CS 30's Isomat rig.

[Joli]

We have an older C&C and are very happy with it. I've sailed most of the models from the 25 to ours and feel they are good solid boats that are more oriented to sailing performance then living accommodations. They certainly don't have the room that a wide body Bene, Cat, or Hunter have but will generally be faster and more comfortable when working upwind.

So, it depends on what you are looking for.

[Blue Stocking]

Joli,

That 61 is one beautiful boat. I remember back in the 80's watching one, Sorcery, I think it was, crossing the finish line off St David's light here in bermuda in a Newport Race.
Triple reef main and maybe #3. We were out there in 50knots in a 52ft ChrisCraft Roamer with 800HP, and could catch her on a beam reach.
My first real sailboat was a 1968 Redwing, a real treat to sail.

[Midwesterner]

In Jack Hornor's review of the C&C 35 (the only model he reviewed) he said that they have a bolt on keel that can experience rusted washers and bolts and fail.

Do other C&C models have the bolt on keel? Did they continue this method of construction for all years?

[UNCIVILIZED]

Pretty much all of the C&C's have bolt on keels, unless you go way, way back. And they're notorious for the "C&C Smile". Meaning the crack developing between the keel's leading edge, where it meets the hull.
But if properly bedded (or re-bedded), with a bit of extra bonding around the joint to the hull. Along with regular bolt re-tightening with each haul out, many to most of the boats have faired really well.

The caveat (emptor) being those boats built in the early 80's era. As the company's finances & management were a mess then, & such was reflected in the construction of the boats.
I was warned off of them myself, when one of the designs from that time frame struck my fancy. Especially regarding the issue(s) of their keel floors construction. That, and some other structural bits in them too.

Info on most of the specific boats is easy to find online, as is info on C&C themselves, during various given periods.
I'm not saying that they're bad boats, usually the opposite, just to be careful.

Also, since it's escaped mention. But as most C&C's have rod rigging, pay attention to that in your pre-purchase evaluations of a candidate boat. As if the rigging's old, & is in need of replacement, that's a rather pricey job to have done (sic).

However, there is the option of converting to wire (standard, or Dyform/Compactes Strand). But do the math on that vs. just a regular replacement of the rod. And actually, some boat have been converted. Which might be something worth looking for, & or adding to your list of questions about specific boats.

PS: There's plenty of info on C&C Yachts - C&C Photo Album & Resource Center Their owner's group website. Often enough, with various reviews of a given model. - Or look online.
And, BTW, many owners have fully dropped their keels off, & redone how they're bedded & bonded. So such is worth inquiring about.

Plus, as has already been stated, find one that's been well cared for, & you can get a LOT of boat for the $.

[Jcolman]

My 73' C&C 30 is still going strong! She does have the following improvements:

New Perkins diesel (2010)

The following was new in 2014:

New standing and running rigging
New wiring and (3) batteries
1000w pure sine wave inverter
new bilge and water pumps
mast step rebuilt
fuel tank cleaned
LED anchor light

Also included are:
microwave
refrigerator
A/C
five head sails
three anchors (including a fortress)
dingy
new 4.5 hp Mercury OB
and a bunch of other stuff i've forgotten.

I just had her hauled to paint the bottom and noticed that the rudder was delaminating at the bottom so I'm taking care of that. Otherwise she is quite a sturdy boat.

Oh, and she's for sale.