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Old 25-11-2021, 12:19   #826
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Whenever someone makes a seamanship statement in "absolutes", I often wonder what their level of experience is?

Structurally engineered with gripes for breaking seas from astern, they are better protected than those exposed on the bow to the far more frequent breaking head seas.

The weakness of most stern davit systems is that they have not thought out the clamping system or overbuilt for offshore
I always store my hard dingy on the fordeck upside down and lashed .
The day it was given to me and I welded up the holes. Float test in the pool.
https://youtu.be/mzacN3IvBlc
This one would never sit on davits regardless of how many hulls I have on my boat .
1,2 or 3.
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Old 25-11-2021, 15:27   #827
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Whenever someone makes a seamanship statement in "absolutes", I often wonder what their level of experience is?

Structurally engineered with gripes for breaking seas from astern, they are better protected than those exposed on the bow to the far more frequent breaking head seas.

The weakness of most stern davit systems is that they have not thought out the clamping system or overbuilt for offshore
I'd be more worried how the dinghy copes a breaking wave, the davits are worthless for me anyways so getting rid of it is on the positive side of things.

But I understand not everybody knows the difference of a breaker behind compared to normal deck washing water. The thing is the weather where these things use to happen is not a weather you'd be beating against it..
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Old 25-11-2021, 16:27   #828
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post



But I understand not everybody knows the difference of a breaker behind compared to normal deck washing water. The thing is the weather where these things use to happen is not a weather you'd be beating against it..
Good points Teddy and a lot of thought needs to be put into protecting the Tender from the crush of tons of water from a breaking sea, whether on foredeck or davits .

I am not talking normal Trade conditions but Storms where you have been forced to hove to or ride a sea anchor from the bow to keep everyone below decks.

Tender size is also a consideration as many with davits for use 99% of the time, chose larger tenders with consoles that cannot fit safely on the fore deck without compromising deck work in heavy weather, or removing baby stay.

Obviously having high davits like "Ran Sailing" where the Tender lashes well above the stern, will protect from following seas.

OB removal and even a system of lashing inverted above strong horizontal davits are options if you don't want the Tender cluttering the foredeck, or it won't fit.

My point is that it's best to look at the options for your boat and chosen tender rather than feel there is only "ONE" way.
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Old 25-11-2021, 16:34   #829
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
I'd be more worried how the dinghy copes a breaking wave, the davits are worthless for me anyways so getting rid of it is on the positive side of things.

But I understand not everybody knows the difference of a breaker behind compared to normal deck washing water. The thing is the weather where these things use to happen is not a weather you'd be beating against it..
When the weather is that bad (breakers which might board from behind), we will likely turn into it and slow way down. Maybe heave to. Happens rarely though, very very rarely.

In those conditions the sea will take what it wants, dingies, jerry cans, kayaks, dodger, anything on deck. Anything on an arch or davits is a liability.

We keep our deck clear. The dingy is deflated and stowed below.

When the conditions are roughest you want to be focused on sailing the boat, not being on the deck somewhere trying to rescue a piece of loose gear.

It's the difference between your wife telling your friends later, "It was horrible, Bill almost died when the dingy got loose." or "It was pretty bad but we got through it OK."
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Old 25-11-2021, 16:40   #830
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

[QUOTE=wingssail;3526584]

We keep our deck clear. The dingy is deflated and stowed below.
QUOTE]
That is by far the best solution if you are happy with a soft bottom dingy
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Old 25-11-2021, 16:47   #831
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

[QUOTE=Pelagic;3526587]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingssail View Post

We keep our deck clear. The dingy is deflated and stowed below.
QUOTE]
That is by far the best solution if you are happy with a soft bottom dingy
NOT happy with that dingy, it is a P.O.S. Zodiac, but I will NOT sail with cluttered decks or equipment aloft. So we tolerate it.
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Old 25-11-2021, 22:12   #832
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

[QUOTE=wingssail;3526590]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post



NOT happy with that dingy, it is a P.O.S. Zodiac, but I will NOT sail with cluttered decks or equipment aloft. So we tolerate it.
I would be the same on a smaller boat, if I was planning a lot of offshore passages, but those days are hopefully over ... (unless Taiwan explodes),

So for us, it is more about managing the most common risks for Asia.

1...Tender lifted high every night is my biggest priority .

2... We tend to anchor further out and away from coastal towns so a good comfortable RIB with range at 15-18 knots that is ideal for going shopping and diving, is best. It is our most used vehicle.

3... At +42 tons, the Tender level is not a stability or trim issue

We secure RIB so that the keel takes the weight low via wide slings and further locked in under the keel to share that weight by our stern boarding ladder

The boarding ladder swings up with a chock attachment from ladder to Keel.

When chock takes the keel, the tubes are compressed slightly on the underside of the davits.

Don't have a photo of it, but you can see below where the ladder is being used to hold white Gangway at the Shipyard,

This is how we lock the Tender keel under the long straight davits.

We also attach a stainless crossbeam to the aft end of both davits when not needing a gangway, plus we add a pivoting Swim Ladder to end of 7 foot boarding ladder to further lock in the Tender.

So Tender is basically 'boxed in" by stainless pipe and ladder sections easily lifted by blocks on the stern solar support.

Our Tender would not be easy to steal at night, which is another priority!

I accept that many will think I have ruined our classic lines with a Solar Bimini and more Solar above the Davits, but they are viewing from afar....
...We are living on board, enjoying ample Solar and a convenient Tender.

While these modifications are built strong enough for offshore forces on a steel foundation, if I was starting again with circumnavigation and Ocean Passages in mind for this tough seagoing motorsailor, I would probably get a fold up Tender as you have done.


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Old 25-11-2021, 22:58   #833
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

There's a huge difference between a 65ft heavy displacement long keel steel ketch and the average 45ft fin keel monohull though...

And of course it's one of the advantages of those bigger boats.


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Old 25-11-2021, 23:01   #834
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

[QUOTE=Pelagic;3526676]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingssail View Post

I would be the same on a smaller boat, if I was planning a lot of offshore passages, but those days are hopefully over ... (unless Taiwan explodes),

So for us, it is more about managing the most common risks for Asia.

1...Tender lifted high every night is my biggest priority .

2... We tend to anchor further out and away from coastal towns so a good comfortable RIB with range at 15-18 knots that is ideal for going shopping and diving, is best. It is our most used vehicle.

3... At +42 tons, the Tender level is not a stability or trim issue

We secure RIB so that the keel takes the weight low via wide slings and further locked in under the keel to share that weight by our stern boarding ladder

The boarding ladder swings up with a chock attachment from ladder to Keel.

When chock takes the keel, the tubes are compressed slightly on the underside of the davits.

Don't have a photo of it, but you can see below where the ladder is being used to hold white Gangway at the Shipyard,

This is how we lock the Tender keel under the long straight davits.

We also attach a stainless crossbeam to the aft end of both davits when not needing a gangway, plus we add a pivoting Swim Ladder to end of 7 foot boarding ladder to further lock in the Tender.

So Tender is basically 'boxed in" by stainless pipe and ladder sections easily lifted by blocks on the stern solar support.

Our Tender would not be easy to steal at night, which is another priority!

I accept that many will think I have ruined our classic lines with a Solar Bimini and more Solar above the Davits, but they are viewing from afar....
...We are living on board, enjoying ample Solar and a convenient Tender.

While these modifications are built strong enough for offshore forces on a steel foundation, if I was starting again with circumnavigation and Ocean Passages in mind for this tough seagoing motorsailor, I would probably get a fold up Tender as you have done.


Attachment 248858Attachment 248859
Looks like a good arrangement.
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Old 25-11-2021, 23:30   #835
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

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Originally Posted by Yihang View Post
Speed only when the wind is 15-20 knots? I'm guessing the engines are on when the wind is below 10.

Here is a Balance 526 sailing 6.4 knots in 6 knots going into the wind, 30 degrees apparent. With only main and self tacking jib(not the thumbnail, but that's what they say in the comments).... Just wow... Although all other points you mentioned are dead accurate.

And it is so exciting that the crew member is looking at her phone.
How close to the wind were they sailing I wonder.
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Old 25-11-2021, 23:42   #836
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

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Cats may stay upside down.

Monos stay on the bottom.

To the original question: I think 95% of it is supply based.

Most long term cruisers buy used boats and fiberglass lasts pretty much forever:
- Production fiberglass has been in production for 60+ years.
- Cats really only took off on a larger scale in the last 20yrs (they were available before that but really only took off more recently in terms of larger sales numbers).

That means there are a lot more cruising monos on the used market, so more cruisers wind up on a mono because that's what is available.

Spending a couple hours at a 20degree heel on the weekend is fun, not so much when it's all the time and it's your home. Monos still win the new sales game but most new boats get sold to weekenders where it's creates the impression of excitement. These boats eventually wind up on the used market feeding the longer term cruisers.
Liveaboards spend most, repeat, most, of their time anchored or alongside. Any well built boat sits upright in that situation.
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Old 25-11-2021, 23:53   #837
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

I think its quite simple. Sailors like monohulls; not sure what to say about those that prefer catamarans. I don't mean this in a disparaging way. Sailing flat and not having your apple danish roll off the table isn't what sailing is about. Its a bit like people that like golf for a sport then drive around the golf course in an electric car.
Catamaran sailors don't understand.
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Old 26-11-2021, 05:24   #838
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

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I think its quite simple. Sailors like monohulls; not sure what to say about those that prefer catamarans. I don't mean this in a disparaging way. Sailing flat and not having your apple danish roll off the table isn't what sailing is about. Its a bit like people that like golf for a sport then drive around the golf course in an electric car.

Catamaran sailors don't understand.
I don't believe it is that simple

Experienced Owners with limited funds have a much bigger choice of a well founded, well maintained mono than a multi, because there are so many more quality monos still out there.

If your cruising grounds dictate frequent return passages to windward in 6-10 ft short/sharp seas, motorsailing a mono will be more comfortable

I don't know how a multi would perform in ice area and they don't seem to survive beaching or hard grounding very well.

That Balance Cat doing 6knts in 6knts of breeze to windward is impressive, but probably had flat seas ...
..... yes I would be motoring in those conditions, or more likely staying at anchor reading a book

So I think that Catamaran Owner is more of an avid sailor than me.
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Old 26-11-2021, 07:25   #839
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

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And it is so exciting that the crew member is looking at her phone.
How close to the wind were they sailing I wonder.
It seems that they were sailing 265deg in a wind direction of 328deg. That is about 63 degrees TWA, about 126 deg tacking angle; a close reach.

This should not be considered exceptional performance; many 50+ boats would hit speeds over 6 knots on a close reach so I wonder why it is something to be ballyhooed. OK, the broker says, "In't this fantastic?" and the new owner, not knowing any better, agrees. Yeah, he's happy 6 knots of speed in 6 knots of wind, wow. And totally flat!

I think I'd be looking at my phone too, maybe something interesting there.
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Old 26-11-2021, 07:50   #840
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Re: Why do you guys like monohulls so much?

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It seems that they were sailing 265deg in a wind direction of 328deg. That is about 63 degrees TWA, about 126 deg tacking angle; a close reach.



This should not be considered exceptional performance; many 50+ boats would hit speeds over 6 knots on a close reach so I wonder why it is something to be ballyhooed. OK, the broker says, "In't this fantastic?" and the new owner, not knowing any better, agrees. Yeah, he's happy 6 knots of speed in 6 knots of wind, wow. And totally flat!



I think I'd be looking at my phone too, maybe something interesting there.


Having reviewed some of your log book on your website it appears you would be really happy to make 6kts in 6kts of wind on your 43’ fast racer converted to cruiser. I was really impressed to see that you were making windspeed in a couple of your entries until I looked at the side note and realized you were motoring! Hohum...........
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