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Old 16-11-2016, 07:16   #16
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

This has been an interesting thread to read so far. I don't think there has been a single response here that is off-the-mark IMHO (might that be first on CF? ) .

I have no extreme heavy weather sailing experience on sailboats. I do have however, an extensive amount of sea time aboard US Navy vessels and this thread jogged a memory of mine when, back in 1986 I was serving aboard a Knox class frigate in the Baltic Sea in January and February of that year. We had lost one of two boilers and the other one was on it's last leg. We were limited to about 4-knots (basic steerage speed) limping to Portsmouth, England for repairs. Storm hit us, not hurricane strength, but close. I remember literally walking on the walls as the ship rolled from side to side, feeling the deck drop out from under you suddenly as the ship would crest a 40-foot wave...arms folded above your head to keep from being head-slammed by the overhead coming down at you. 5 days confined to bunks unless going to, or coming from a watch station. Lemme tell you, using the head was a seriously unpleasant experience with about a third of the crew being seasick and nobody able to clean things up.

And yes, we had a substantial amount of water ingress when deck, window and hatch seals and gaskets failed due to twisting and stress. Lost a window in the Pilothouse when the bow was buried coming down a trough. Lost integrity of a roll-up door of the helo hanger when a following wave got us and must have submerged the aft third of the ship. Xerox machine came loose in the personnel office and destroyed every desk, file cabinet, chair, ruptured a couple of fire extinguishers, and forced the Personnel Chief in the office at time to spend the better part of 12-hours clinging too/lying atop an 8-inch firemain pipe running through the overhead!

And that's my sea story for the day. The power of the sea is awesome, beautiful.....and extremely dangerous.

Not to take away from the OP, but please keep posting some of your experiences, suggested reads, lessons learned, et al. Much appreciated as I am planning to return to sailing early next year after not sailing much, or often, for the past 20-years (foreign naval vessels and private motor yachts mostly) so I have a very large re-learning curve ahead of me. Thanks again
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Old 16-11-2016, 08:23   #17
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

These types of posts and multihulls catamaran seaworthiness talks always gets what I think are responses that are unrealistic and show lack of appreciation and respect for the sea about how boats can be made to be storm proof yet no boat I've ever seen is. Submarines that are below the thermal plane don't count.

It's likemmultihull evangelicals who say they don't sink. Or monohulls evangelicals who insist that they right and therefore no big deal. Drowned crews, bashed up unconscious people, broken masts and ripped out rudders. But it's okay folks we are still floating!
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Old 16-11-2016, 08:40   #18
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

as has been repeatedly proven, NO boat is good in a cane. not ships, not sailboats not fishers. the best way to cane proof your boat is to find a good cane hole and hunker.
even ships fail in canes, as has been shown at least 2 times in the past 2 yrs... once in caribbean, with the supply ship that apparently rolled to its oblivion, and once in southwest coastal mexico with a grain carrier being driven into the beaches of isla navidad(between rock outcroppings, miraculously) in patricia. they got lucky, as situation was 100 percent white out and no control of boat in 215 mph steady winds with 250 mph gusting. measured and recorded. that ship could not go south, as requested--was driven by storm to north and the tiny lil beach it landed on then broke in half. by luck all hands safe..
there is no steerage in a strong cane nor is there visibility, which all have forgotten happens with sideways winds and steep blowing seas--all appears as one. have fun testing in a good strong cane.
gom has wonderful lil storms--not even close to cane strength--is a good place to learn the characteristics of storms. sail in a few severe fronts then try an extreme front. severe is to winds 71 kts--extreme is above with 80 kts not uncommon. use noaa categories and go sailing. you will learn a lot.
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Old 16-11-2016, 09:11   #19
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective to illustrate the problem.

Water can only get in if air can get out.

If your boat is AIRTIGHT and can remain so through the storm you are in good shape.

Pretty damn hard to make somethin airtight.

Our 44' cutter is pretty stout. No lazzarette hatches, 1/4" and 3/16" steel, deck stepped mast, etc.

The weak points are companionway closure, vents including engine, port lights,mvarious thru deck fittings.

So I'll get at least some water in. Next I need secure batteries and pumps to get it back out so it doesn't accumulate. And perhaps a charging solution also for a long storm.

I recall reading of a well found steel boat lost. Crew was owner and a novice. The boat rolled, was relatively slowly sinking, owner took a wack to the head and was sorta out of it, novice couldn't operate pumps. They say in the cockpit and she sunk around them. They were luckily found and rescued by a fishing boat.

I'm not sweating it, just doing the analysis.
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Old 16-11-2016, 09:11   #20
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

Does not matter the number of hulls, most recreational boats sink due to being bashed to death by other boats, roofs, whole garages, trees, etc. Even a coconut moving at 100 mph is likely to bash right through most fiberglass hulls.

An unsinkable boat is theoretically possible but not realistic. So its a matter of how well the boat is secured before a hurricane hits. And that is often up to how lucky you are.
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Old 16-11-2016, 09:19   #21
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

Closest to unsinkable that I can think of is one of those orange lifeboats that sits on the sterns of ships that go down that slide. Be one terrible experience though I think, probably never get the smell out.
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Old 16-11-2016, 10:06   #22
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post


In addition to this, download (free) & read Surviving the Storm by Steve & Linda Dashew. They’re world renowned sailors who’ve written many books on most aspects of sailing. And in this one there are also after action reports of vessels caught in major storms. SetSail FPB » Free Books


A useful source from Uncivilized. Thanks.
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Old 16-11-2016, 10:59   #23
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

"Etap" sailboats can sail even when flooded. A belgian sailboat. Nice as in Etap 37.
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Old 16-11-2016, 11:07   #24
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

See my reply to building battery box from a few days ago. When the wave hit me there was such an almighty crashing sound and shaking of the boat that after it passed by and the deck drained out I looked to see if the cabin was still attached to the hull, and I can honestly say I expected to see a big hole. I was also in a Cat 5 hurricane in the Carribean, this time on shore but watched a 37 ft sail boat being laid over to over 45 degrees + just by the wind on the mast and rigging. You could use large airbags if you really did not want to have the boat sink but you would have to calculate the buoyancy against boat displacement and would there be room for you and crew?
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Old 16-11-2016, 12:44   #25
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Closest to unsinkable that I can think of is one of those orange lifeboats that sits on the sterns of ships that go down that slide. Be one terrible experience though I think, probably never get the smell out.
As they are built as cheaply as they can be while still complying with minimal SOLAS rules, I would not like to be in a gale in a modern lifeboat. The back door, for example, is 1/4 inch f/glass.
After being in a liferaft in moderate weather also. The only way you are going to get me into one is if I have to step up out of the water into it.

I would far rather be in a we'll built and equiped yacht, designed for offshore cruising.

I've been in ships in hurricane force winds. The best option is avoidance. There are no guarantees.
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Old 16-11-2016, 14:49   #26
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

Kittle things bring big problems. I sailed a Nantai 37 from Buffalo, NY to Brisbane, Australia. Half the trip was single handed. No such thing as going overboard when it come to safety and preparation. Securing everything both topside and below deck. Locking cockpit lockers and making sure nothing loose can cause any damage. I secured topside hatches and covered them as well. When it came to the ports, ine of the weakest places for water to enter, I cut 1/4 inch Plexiglas to fit the outside and used silicone to secure these in place where they could not be blown in. When you think you have secured you topside anchor, secure it again. If going below decks, secure wheel or rudder to protect rudded from damage. Having a companionway that can be secured from below is essential. After all that, say a prayer and be prepared for the unexpected. Next day, Thank God and enjoy your trip.http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...lies/peace.gif
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Old 16-11-2016, 15:05   #27
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

Why does anything sink in any fluid medium? Two features required.
1) Gravity. No gravity, no sinking.
2) Anything with an average density greater than the surrounding fluid medium will sink.
There is not a lot you can do about the local gravity, however, the second feature is a different kettle of fish. Literally.

However, many sinkings are a reflection of the intellectual density of the captain. Hurricanes are generally readily avoided.

There is a German website joke that has a novice marine rescue radio operator answering a distress call....

"Vot? You are sinking! Vye you are calling me for? Ja? Vot are you sinking about? I am here to help people, not to hear about what you is sinking about! Goodby!" Blutty foreigners!

However, a common observation is that "the most stable position for a ballasted boat is on the bottom - for a multihull, the most stable position is upside down" Interesting choice. But best to avoid either.

Hmm. I had better find something constructive to do today.
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Old 16-11-2016, 15:28   #28
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

That would be the Berlitz commercial..
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Old 16-11-2016, 19:43   #29
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

I remember, don't know the user id but someone maybe 9 - 12 months ago wrote in asking about removing the mast on a sailboat and using it as a motor boat only.

I wonder if sinking was his concern?

Even with the mast removed sounds like there are lots of other things that could break and let water in.
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Old 16-11-2016, 20:49   #30
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Re: Why do monohulls sink in hurricanes?

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Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25 View Post
"Etap" sailboats can sail even when flooded. A belgian sailboat. Nice as in Etap 37.
They might not sink, but by the time they have been dismasted and filled with water killing engine and electrics, I don't think they would be all that 'nice' any more.
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