Why Are Bavaria Yachts Not Well-Liked Here ?

[hoppy]

I have noticed a general feeling here that many people look down on Bavaria yachts and I am curious to know what it is about them?

Before joining here I had a negative vibe about them, but that was mostly because the quality of the inside finish just did not compare with the French production boats. I also notice the same with the motor boats, as the difference in quality between a 38 ft Bavara motor boat and a Searay of the same size was dramatic. I could easily see why people would be willing to pay double the price for the Searay.

If one overlooks that Bavaria yachts inside are very "ikea", is there really anything fundamentally wrong with the boats rigging, hull strength and performance etc compared with other production boats?

Is a Bavaria any worse than Jeanneau or Benneteau for ocean crossings

I am curious to know peoples thought as next week I have arrange to sail Bavaria 39 for 3 day (skippered) charter in Greece out of Lefkas.

The trip to Greece was planned as a boat viewing and relaxing time. I decided to book the charter as a last minute thing. I really don't know what sized boat I should get and have been swapping between 33/34 up to 38/40. I hope the sale of the 39 will tell me if I am stupid to get a boat that big (now) and that I focus on the smaller yachts.

Bavaria has not been on my shopping list, but maybe the 3 day sail might change my mind.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by hoppy

I have noticed a general feeling here that many people look down on Bavaria yachts and I am curious to know what it is about them?


Bavaria has not been on my shopping list, but maybe the 3 day sail might change my mind.

G'Day Hoppy,

Frankly, a three day charter done in protected waters with a crew to look after all the maintenance issues, etc, will not give you any useful data upon which to base a choice in long term cruising yachts.

I know that folks here on CF often suggest chartering as a means of gathering data, but really, it is just not the same set of challenges that one faces when cruising.

As I have suggested before, spending some time wandering around boatyards where boats go for repairs can yield some interesting data about common problems that appear in various production boats. Talking to the folks who do the repairs can be quite instructive. These guys have no "brand loyalty" or other vested interests, they just bolt on new keels,etc.

I'll likely get flamed for such a non-PC opinion, but seems like it needs to be said!

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Michaelmas Cay, Qld, Oz

[LuvToSail]

I am not an expert on the new production boats but I have spend two weeks on 2 different Bavaria 40s. They seem on par with the other Production boats and were quite nice. They certainly weren't the greatest performing boats though. I think the newer Catalinas are faster. My wife didn't like the dark wood they used to use (it might have changed).

When we considering getting a new production boat to put into Charter the Bavaria were on the list. (We ended up buying a 40 year old boat and don't charter it... it all worked out well..but that is another story.)

Have you looked at the Hanse? The guy who ran the charter company said they had the fewest issues with them.

[shadow]

My own personal opinion and experience is that every Bavaria that I went on (new at boat shows) literally had different colored wood and grain throughout the salon?!?! The selling broker had no real answer for the obvious.. I figured, if they can't even match up the wood right, what else are they having trouble with?!?!

Not a huge fan of the Bene's or jene's, though I think they are better then Bavarias. I know that the older models of all 3 were far better built with better quality. Now, it seems to be very much cookie cutter, mass produced stuff. Don't get me wrong, I know of many cruisers on all 3 that love theirs for their own reasons.. Just ask MarkJ, I know he loves his Bene 393!!

I guess there is no bad boat, you just need to find out which boat is best for you.. They all have their pros and cons..

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'Day Hoppy,

Frankly, a three day charter done in protected waters with a crew to look after all the maintenance issues, etc, will not give you any useful data upon which to base a choice in long term cruising yachts.

The Bavaria 39 charter is more about boat handling for me. Firstly brush off the dust from my former experience (from 34 footers 35 years ago) and then try to figure out if 39ft is too much of a leap in or whether I should focus on finding smaller boats.

[donradcliffe]

Just search for 'Bavaria keel loss' to get an idea of hull strength.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by hoppy

I am curious to know peoples thought as next week I have arrange to sail Bavaria 39 for 3 day (skippered) charter in Greece out of Lefkas.

Why dont you tell us what you thought next week?

[daddle]

Chartered a Bavaria 45 (approx) in the Med a few years ago. I considered it unseaworthy to sail. It was great to get fall down drunk on as there is loads of nice furniture and the gals liked the plushness. I think they are just basic charter junk. Fun. Wouldn't want to own one to sail.

[Alphonse]

Dear Hoppy,
Jim and Ann's reply to your question is what most people with some sailing experience, coastal, offshore, tropical waters, whereve,r would agree with.
A heavy boat for off-shore is always a safer boat. Slow perhaps in light winds but
fast enough and safe in rough seas! Have a look at a Tayana 37.
Cheers
Alphonse

[Bash]

the boat snobs look down on them because they're so closely modeled after Swans. They call them "Swanabies."

If you like Swans and can't afford one, go with Bavaria. If not, go with the Bene or Junneau. Either way, you'll end up with a serviceable production boat that will serve you well while earning you the disdain of the boat snobs.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Why dont you tell us what you thought next week?

I will

I think I will probably come away from it impressed by it's sailing performance. But this judgement will be based on (1) sailing in relatively sheltered waters, (2) my last sail was on my Fathers Salar 40 motorsailer in January, (3) the the most modern yacht I have sailed on was a Bene First 405, but that was back in the late '80s. (4) if the keel does not fall off and it doesn't capsize, then I will rate the stability above my old Mirror dingy

[stillbuilding]

Seen Bavarias with corroded non-stainless screws and generally crappy materials behind the marine ply. Looked like it was made with no thought to later access and maintenance.

[goboatingnow]

God the uninformed snobbery

Just search for 'Bavaria keel loss' to get an idea of hull strength.

Yes and also read the full story and perhaps have a look at the you-tube video showing bavarias testing their kneel by repeatidly running them into rocks.

and by the way that keel problem was on an original Bavaria Match series a boat boat built for IMS racing

A heavy boat for off-shore is always a safer boat. Slow perhaps in light winds but
fast enough and safe in rough seas! Have a look at a Tayana 37.

Absolulte popycock, see Kirschmeir et al. PS why would you reccomend a boat built in Taiwan, full of osmosis problems. ( and teak deck issues), built with unskilled manual labour in a back yard process. ( everyone can be snobs).

1000's of Bavarias sail all over the world, including on the ARC and World ARC. As to sheltered waters, if you mean the waters off the North European coats or teh med, then I suggest you sir have never sailed any of these, in My opinion haveing sailed them and elsewhere , these are not " sheltered" waters.

Its just boat snobs thats all.

Look atthe deck gear on a Bavaria, (selden, facnor, lewmar, yanmar etc) Look at the same deck gear on a Swan.!

They are good mass market boats, strong as you need them, nice interiors and put together with more incommon with car production then men with a old saw and a bent screwdriver. ( I used to design robots, machine built is better built).

Dave

[Pete7]

We chartered one of the smaller Bav's, a 32ft (2003 ish) model from memory although they keep changing the model numbers. Driving around a busy marina in gusty winds and a strong tide running under the pontoons it handled beautifully and was a doddle to park. It went backwards in a straight line which is more than most do.

Out on the open water when the wind dropped it still sailed suprisingly well. Didn't have the opportunity to try it in strong winds.

Finish below was all plastic; moulded to look like wood grain. Easy to clean but it certainly wasn't wood, but then you are not paying for teak. Looking behind the cupboards and in holes revealed the bulkheads and furniture were glued in with a grey mastic rather than fibreglass. However I was concerned to see the split back stay attached to a bracket which on the inside was re-inforced with an offcut of aliminium plate about the size of a cigarette packet on each side. The plate wasn't straight, roughly cut and had self tapping screws driven through from the outside. It wasn't even bolted.

We were considering buying and chartering to help pay for it, however the figures didn't look good so bottled out and bought an older boat instead. We see lots of the 31-34 ft Bav/Ben/Jen sized yachts around the channel and for coastal cruising they are fine. Personally I prefer the Beneteau's, I think they have a better finish and the later ones with big sky lights give a feeling of light and airy down below, were as the Bav was dark not helped with dark coloured platic wood.

I looked over a couple of 34ft yachts at last years boat shows, the interiors weren't even Ikea standard, more like MFI seems they are getting worse.

A 3 day charter is an excellent idea and will give you the opportunity to really look over the boat so see how she is put together. Ignore the thing about the keel falling off, it was a race boat and seems may have been run aground previously without then being inspected.

Pete

[cburger]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

( I used to design robots, machine built is better built).

Originally Posted by Pete7

However I was concerned to see the split back stay attached to a bracket which on the inside was re-inforced with an offcut of aliminium plate about the size of a cigarette packet on each side. The plate wasn't straight, roughly cut and had self tapping screws driven through from the outside. It wasn't even bolted.

Maybe the german robots are having a little to much Becks on their lunch break