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Old 25-02-2021, 15:59   #1
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Where was it made?

I am in the process of trying to buy a Beneteau First 345 and am trying to resolve a little mystery. The boat I am currently looking at a boat with the following detail
The HIN is BEY 00280 0384 and has another number affixed just above the HIN which is 0144 085 480 0280 I have no idea of the meaning of the latter number.

The boat is the two cabin version with wheel steering and is a little unusual in that the mast is keel stepped and it has a Yanmar 2GM 15hp as the original engine, serial # 10176

A while ago I read an article Practical Sailor about 345s which in part stated that about twenty were not made in France. I contacted the author who replied that he could not recall where he obtained the "twenty" information.

I then went to the USCG site and gleaned the following. That any new boat imported to the US must have a BEY # which must be prefaced by a country of origin designation and in the case of France FR.

I contacted Beneteau who were not helpful and remarked "Oh dear, that is an old boat"

I have spoken with knowledgeable persons and none have any information regarding the "twenty"

I wish to import the boat to Canada from the US and would be delighted not to pay duty.

Bearing in mind the year of manufacture, the culture of conspiracy theories I almost suspect that Big Brother is watching me.

Regards to All
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Old 25-02-2021, 16:25   #2
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Re: Where was it made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Reid View Post
I am in the process of trying to buy a Beneteau First 345 and am trying to resolve a little mystery. The boat I am currently looking at a boat with the following detail
The HIN is BEY 00280 0384 and has another number affixed just above the HIN which is 0144 085 480 0280 I have no idea of the meaning of the latter number.

The boat is the two cabin version with wheel steering and is a little unusual in that the mast is keel stepped and it has a Yanmar 2GM 15hp as the original engine, serial # 10176

A while ago I read an article Practical Sailor about 345s which in part stated that about twenty were not made in France. I contacted the author who replied that he could not recall where he obtained the "twenty" information.

I then went to the USCG site and gleaned the following. That any new boat imported to the US must have a BEY # which must be prefaced by a country of origin designation and in the case of France FR.

I contacted Beneteau who were not helpful and remarked "Oh dear, that is an old boat"

I have spoken with knowledgeable persons and none have any information regarding the "twenty"

I wish to import the boat to Canada from the US and would be delighted not to pay duty.

Bearing in mind the year of manufacture, the culture of conspiracy theories I almost suspect that Big Brother is watching me.

Regards to All
Reference:

https://uscgboating.org/content/manu...on-result2.php

For boats built or imported after August 1, 1984
The system for building the HIN changed after this date. Since most of you will be checking on boats after this date, we’ll cover this first.

Example: ABC12345J314

Manufacturer ID Code (MIC) Hull Serial Number Date of Manufacture Model Year
ABC 12345 J3 14

Manufacturer Identification Code (MIC)
Entering the MIC into this US Coast Guard database will get you the manufacturer and their location.

Hull Serial Number
These five characters are assigned by the manufacturer. They are normally numbers, but letters (except I, O and Q) may also be used.

Date of Manufacture
The letter is for the month of manufacture:

A = January
B = February
C = March
D = April
E = May
F = June
G = July
H = August
I = September
J = October
K = November
L = December
The number is the last digit of the year of manufacture. Since there’s only one digit, it must be interpreted by the Model Year. In our example, J3 designates that the boat was built in October 2013.

Model Year
In the example above, the year is 2014.

Your vessel of interest:

The Manufacturers Identification Code MIC denoted as BEY is listed as BGM AMERICA INC 1313 HIGHWAY 76 WEST MARION SC

Your hull number is 00280
Your year of manufacture is 2003
Model year is 1984


The main production facility for Beneteau is in France with five factories in the Vendée area of France. However they have one US plant producing boats for the America's market in Marion, South Carolina which opened in 1986; since then the factory has nearly doubled in size to about 250,000 square feet (23,000 m2). As of May, 2017, the Marion plant has built and distributed more than 8,700 boats

The COVID-19 pandemic has forced the closure of a longtime boat manufacturing facility in Marion. Groupe Beneteau announced the site, which produces Beneteau and Jeanneau sailboats, will close by the end of the year. The move impacts more than 170 employees.
Beneteau opened its doors in 1986 producing cruising sailboats for the North American market from 34 to 46 feet.
Groupe Beneteau Americas Chief Operating Officer Yannick Madiot said the market has been challenging the past 10 years and in decline.
“The pandemic that we are going through right now has really affected in a very sizeable way our customers,” Madiot said. “As a result of that, we have to hibernate the plant for an unknown period of time.”
Madiot said the Marion plant operation will gradually shut down activity from Sept.16 through Nov. 30, 2020.
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Old 25-02-2021, 18:40   #3
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Re: Where was it made?

Sir,



Thank you for your interest

"Your knowledge is obvious but I must say that I am bemused by the the section that follows.

]Your vessel of interest:

The Manufacturers Identification Code MIC denoted as BEY is listed as BGM AMERICA INC 1313 HIGHWAY 76 WEST MARION SC

Your hull number is 00280
Your year of manufacture is 2003
Model year is 1984"

I fully concur that the model year is 1984 but I am concerned that the first year of manufacture reads as 2003. I have seen many pictures of the boat and it is an mid 80s boat.

From the evidence that I was able to provide. can you assure me that the boat was manufactured in the US bearing in mind that it has a BEY HIN which is NOT prefixed by FR

Does BEY definitively mean Made in America?

As the Marion plant did not open until 1986 and assuming that about 20 345s were in fact made in the US, was limited production of 345s some kind of pre start up program?

Thank you for help
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Old 25-02-2021, 19:36   #4
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Re: Where was it made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Reid View Post
I am in the process of trying to buy a Beneteau First 345 and am trying to resolve a little mystery. The boat I am currently looking at a boat with the following detail
The HIN is BEY 00280 0384 and has another number affixed just above the HIN which is 0144 085 480 0280 I have no idea of the meaning of the latter number.



A while ago I read an article Practical Sailor about 345s which in part stated that about twenty were not made in France. I contacted the author who replied that he could not recall where he obtained the "twenty" information.

I then went to the USCG site and gleaned the following. That any new boat imported to the US must have a BEY # which must be prefaced by a country of origin designation and in the case of France FR.


I wish to import the boat to Canada from the US and would be delighted not to pay duty.

Bearing in mind the year of manufacture, the culture of conspiracy theories I almost suspect that Big Brother is watching me.

Regards to All
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Reid View Post
Sir,



Thank you for your interest

"Your knowledge is obvious but I must say that I am bemused by the the section that follows.

]Your vessel of interest:

The Manufacturers Identification Code MIC denoted as BEY is listed as BGM AMERICA INC 1313 HIGHWAY 76 WEST MARION SC

Your hull number is 00280
Your year of manufacture is 2003
Model year is 1984"

I fully concur that the model year is 1984 but I am concerned that the first year of manufacture reads as 2003. I have seen many pictures of the boat and it is an mid 80s boat.

From the evidence that I was able to provide. can you assure me that the boat was manufactured in the US bearing in mind that it has a BEY HIN which is NOT prefixed by FR

Does BEY definitively mean Made in America?

As the Marion plant did not open until 1986 and assuming that about 20 345s were in fact made in the US, was limited production of 345s some kind of pre start up program?

Thank you for help
Do you have the original builder's certificate? That would provide proof of country of origin. Beneteau should be able to provide you with a duplicate and definitively where it was manufactured. They should have a detailed list of each and every vessel they have manufactured, do not let them blow you off.

Reference: What is a HIN


The HIN/MIC usually referred to as the HIN has been required on all boats manufactured or imported into the USA since November 1, 1972. In 1981 Transport Canada agreed to piggyback on the US system and require the same on all Canadian vessels. Prior to 1981 Canadian builders may or may not have marked these codes on their boats depending on whether or not the boat was being exported to the USA. Europe now also follows this system (more or less when they feel like it).

Each part of the code has some meaning and it's really pretty simple except that over the years the format has been modified so that there are four different versions out there now.

A. In the case of the 12 character HIN, the first three characters are assigned by the USCG and these three identify the manufacturer or importer. Get the three characters from your hull and you can search the USCG database for builder/importer contact info and even check the Recalls Database to see if there are any active recalls on file or get the mailing address of the importer or builder and whether or not they are still in business..
B. With a 15 character HIN, the first two characters (optional) identify the country of build. ie. FR indicates France. These two characters are separated from the balance of the code with a dash and this is counted as a character. This has some importance if you are importing a boat across the USA/Canadian border in either direction as they will be subject to duty unless built in a NAFTA country.
C. There are no spaces allowed in the HIN. I have inserted a few spaces in my diagrams for clarity.
D. The characters must be at least 1/4" high.
E. If additional information is displayed within 2" of the HIN, that information must be separated from the HIN by means of borders, or must be on a separate label so that it will not be interpretated as part of the HIN.
F. The HIN must be marked on the upper starboard transom or the upper starboard topsides, aft, if the vessel has no transom.
G. The HIN must be marked in a fashion such that tampering will deface the hull.
H. Date of manufacture must be no later than the date the vessel leaves the place of manufacture or assembly or is imported into the US for the purposes of sale.
I. As of August 1, 1984 manufacturers were required to mark an identical copy of the visible HIN in a hidden location in the vessel.

2. Interpreting the four HIN versions

Version A. " Straight Year Format ". 12 characters. In use from November 1, 1972 to August 1984.

A. The first three characters may be alpha or numeric and are assinged by the USCG. These not only identify the manufacturer but what plant the vessel was built in. except in the case of imported boats. ie. On a vessel imported from Taiwan the code will identify the importer. in this case it is often impossible to tell where the boat was built as these importers come and go like a bad cold.

B. The next five characters may also be alpha or numeric (except the letters I,O and Q) and are at the discretion of the builder as their own serial number.

C. The last four digits are a straight date code for month and year the hull came out of the mould, hence the descriptor
" Straight Year" version.

VERSION B. " Model Year Format ". 12 characters, also in use from November 1, 1972 to August 1984.

A. Same as " Straight Year " format.

B. Same as " Straight Year " format.

C. The " M " is a fixed character indicating " Model Year Format " and never changes.

D. These two characters indicate " model year " and not necessarily year of build. A model year of 73' and a month code of prior to August of that year shows the vessel was actually produced in 1972 for the 1973 model year ( much the way many 2012 model cars are actually produced in 2011 ).

E. This alpha character indicates month of production as show in the key below.

AUG - A FEB - G
SEP - B MAR - H
OCT - C APR - I
NOV - D MAY - J
DEC - E JUN - K
JAN - F JUL - L

VERSION C. " New Format " 12 characters. In use from August 1, 1984 to present. See reference link above for format example.

Same as others.

Same as others.

This alpha character shows the month of build with January being " A " and running in sequence to " L " indicating December.

Year of Build. In this case 1993.

Model Year. Often a year later than the "Year of Build".

VERSION D. " New Format " with optional country code making it 15 characters.
This one is easy. It's tha same as version C but with an optional two character country pre-fix with a dash between it and the rest ( remember the dash counts as a character)). The CA tells us the boat was built in Canada. For a list of country codes see USCG.


Your hull number is 280 so apparently they made at least that many of that model.

The first three characters of the HIN are a MIC (Manufacturer Identification Code) assigned by the Coast Guard to the manufacturer or the person importing the boat.

US built boats start with BEY and have a 12 digit code including the BEY. French built boats should have the prefix FR before the BEY and use a 15 digit code which includes the FR-BEY.

Reference the MIC code lists below.

It is a very long list. It will take a while to download and when it has completed downloading you can put the three letter code in the search box - BEY and it will show you the manufacturer. There are over 16,000 MIC codes

https://soeasilydistracted.com/home/...de-lookup-mic/


Further reference:

Boats manufactured in the United States (except military vessels) have a three-character U.S. Coast Guard manufacturer's
identification code as the first three characters of the manufacturer's assigned boat hull number. Some large manufacturers
who have several boat building plants have been assigned multiple codes by the U.S. Coast Guard. When entering a record
for a boat made by such a manufacturer, the BMA Field code should agree with the first three characters of the boat hull
number.


Canadian manufacturers may apply to the U.S. Coast Guard for a manufacturer's identification code. If the U.S. Coast Guard
assigns a code, it will begin with the alphabetic Z.
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Old 25-02-2021, 19:40   #5
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Re: Where was it made?

My boat has a HIN beginning with BEY. It also has a metal placard mounted in the cockpit stating it was manufactured in France.

I don't think it is unusual for a First 345 mast to be keel stepped.
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Old 25-02-2021, 20:11   #6
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Re: Where was it made?

https://www.uscgboating.org/regulati...ormation-d.php

Part 1—Regulations and Other Information
"NO CERTIFICATE—NO NUMBERS!"

When a boat manufacturer or importer sells a recreational boat, the company should provide a Certificate of Origin to the purchaser. The purchaser needs a Certificate of Origin to obtain a title or register a boat with state numbering authorities. The procedure is the same as when an automobile is purchased. In the boating world this document is also often called a Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin, Master Builders Certificate, Carpenters Certificate, etc. They are all the same thing.

We receive numerous complaints from owners who are unable to register their boats and obtain State registration numbers because they do not have a Certificate of OriginThe State authorities tell many of these people to request a form from Coast Guard Merchant Vessel Documentation offices called "Builder’s Certification," which the Coast Guard offices use to establish the fact that vessels intended for documentation were U.S. manufactured. It is not necessary to use the "Builders Certification" form for boats which will be registered in a State.

Further reference https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organiz...on-Center-FAQ/


HOW IS VESSEL OWNERSHIP ESTABLISHED?
If the vessel is new and has never been documented, ownership may be established by submission of a Builder's Certification (Form CG-1261), naming the applicant for documentation as the person for whom the vessel was built or to whom the vessel was first transferred. Also acceptable are a transfer on a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin, a copy of the State Registration or Title, or foreign registration showing that the applicant owns the vessel.


In the case of a previously owned vessel, the applicant must present bills of sale, or other evidence showing transfer of the vessel from the person who last documented, titled, or registered the vessel, or to whom the vessel was transferred on a Builder's Certification or Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin.


US Code of Federal Regulations

33 CFR § 187.7 - What are the definitions of terms used in this part?
CFR

§ 187.7 What are the definitions of terms used in this part?
As used in this part -

Approved Numbering System means a numbering system approved by the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security under 46 U.S.C. Chapter 123.

Certificate of Documentation means the certificate issued by the Coast Guard for a documented vessel under 46 U.S.C. 12103 (Form CG-1270).

Certificate of Origin or COO means a document establishing the initial chain of ownership, such as a manufacturer's certificate of origin (MCO) or statement of origin (MSO), an importer's certificate of origin (ICO) or statement of origin (ISO), or a builder's certification (Form CG-1261; see 46 CFR part 67).

Certificate of Ownership means the Certificate of Ownership issued by the Coast Guard under 46 CFR part 67 (Form CG-1330).

Commandant means the Commandant of the United States Coast Guard.

Dealer means any person who engages wholly or in part in the business of buying, selling, or exchanging new or used vessels, or both, either outright or on conditional sale, bailment, lease, chattel mortgage or otherwise. A dealer must have an established place of business for the sale, trade, and display of such vessels.

Documented vessel means a vessel documented under 46 U.S.C. chapter 121.

Hull Identification Number or HIN means the number assigned to a vessel under subpart C of 33 CFR part 181.
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Old 25-02-2021, 20:40   #7
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Re: Where was it made?

This HIN: BEY001480F585 is for a 1985 Beneteau built in France. No "FR" preface on plate or hull imprint.

This HIN: BEYIL059H990 is for a 1990 Beneteau built in the US.

BEY = Beneteau but does not specify the country of manufacture.

The metal plate referred to in a previous post, if it is still attached, will provide that info. The 1990 boat was built in South Carolina. The 1985 boat plate says it was built in Ste. Hilaire di Riez, France. None of this will help you unless you can find the plate.

We imported the 1985 boat from the US into Canada so I can really appreciate your motivation to find that it was manufactured in the US!
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Old 25-02-2021, 22:30   #8
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Re: Where was it made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
US built boats start with BEY and have a 12 digit code including the BEY. French built boats should have the prefix FR before the BEY and use a 15 digit code which includes the FR-BEY.
To confuse the matter somewhat ... the "FR" or country designation is optional.
Most of the French boats had a plate in the cockpit stating location of build plant.
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Old 28-02-2021, 10:58   #9
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Re: Where was it made?

Thank you all for your assistance and advice. Although my is issue is not not definitively resolved it is looking like the "twenty" is a figment of someone's imagination. Still trying to get some sense out of Beneteau who now inform me that they have a massive IT failure and cannot check anything. Either way I am about to make an offer and assuming acceptance, after a little horse trading, I will finally resolve the issue and head for the border, come what may.
Thanks again
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Old 28-02-2021, 15:26   #10
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Re: Where was it made?

Good luck with it, Don. What an adventure!

Great research, guys.

Ann
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Old 28-02-2021, 16:00   #11
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Re: Where was it made?

I am not sure what the status of free trade agreements are between Canada and the EU. Under the Canada-European Trade Agreement (CETA 2017), duties on imports from a European Union (EU) country on vessels was to be reduced annually until it became zero in 2023.

Canada had added a 10% retaliatory tariff on USA built boats due to Trump imposing Section 232 import tariffs on Canadian aluminum exports to the USA. That penalty tariff has been discontinued now the tariff if any should be modest from the USA under the USMCA. (The 10% tariff on American boats imposed July 1, 2018 was lifted in May 2019). I believe there is no Canadian Federal tarrif USA made boats.

Whereas boats made in other countries pay between 5% and 9.5% duty.


Snipet from an article.

The Canada-European Free Trade Association Free Trade Agreement (CEFTA) was first signed in Davos, Switzerland on January 26, 2008 and came into effect July 1, 2009. CEFTA includes the countries of Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. As a result of this agreement, duty rates applied to the importation of various vessels into Canada were greatly affected.

Canadian customs duties under Chapter 89 – Ships, boats, and floating structures – of the Harmonized Tariff average 25% under the Most Favoured Nation (MFN) Tariff rate. Vessels that qualify under the rules of origin of CEFTA will benefit from a reduction of these duty rates as, under the agreement, the rate of duty is gradually being reduced on an annual basis until it reaches duty free status in July 2023.

Due to the complexity of CEFTA rules of origin, its distinct tariff classification regulations, as well as an increased frequency of auditing by Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA), it is in an importer’s best interest to obtain an advance ruling on Tariff Classification and Origin Status. A written decision from CBSA on tariff change in advance of the importation may affect the origin qualification and eliminate duty exposure.

The GST/HST/PST or whatever Canada's VAT scheme is called will be expensive.

Enjoy your Beneteau.
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Old 01-03-2021, 08:39   #12
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Re: Where was it made?

The Yanmar and keel stepped mast are unusual. I was working at a Beneteau dealer in Canada when that model was sold new, and the boats coming from France all had deck stepped masts and Volvo motors.

I didn't think the Marion facility built any First series boats until the 1990s, but maybe they built a run of 345s when they started up. Those changes seem consistent with North American tastes. A lot of folks were turned off by the deck stepped mast at the time.

This is just speculation on my part, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that this boat was built in the US.
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