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tellytulear · 01-03-2010, 17:33

wow, Wow, WOW !! Slowshoes is right. I got some ideas to chew on
Thank you all so far for your insight. This forum really is special. I belong to a few recreational (RV'er, kayak& skiing) forums and can say that what you have here is pretty unique. Flaming seems kept to a minimum (?screened out) and personality jousts are done pretty tame (?maybe I need to reserve judgement till I've been around for awhile ?!) I followed the thread by Kefaa (Does it take everyone this long') and recognized how great it is that so many are willing to share your lessons from previous experience and actually help someone accomplish their dream. PLease take a bow (or a stern).

As far as building a kit boat, that would most likely end in divorce. (I struggle with other more mundane deadlines now as it is - like anniversary dates, trash day etc.) However, there are a bunch of shipwrights in northern New England craving work - plans such as the ones you posted, Hampus, might be good to discuss with one of them over some chowda.

But I still think I'd rather have a boat that has been extensively proven over time to take a beating, even though I hope to not have it out in roaring 40's weather much. I have a wife and 6 yo daughter, and safety is #1 for us. I love the cocoon-like look of the Norsea / Falmouth Cutter / Dana24 / Flicka. I love sailing comfort & beautiful lines ( I can't swim around these parts without being bashed in the head by Morris / Paine / Hinckley yachts), but at the end of the day (or 'days' if were talking about FLicka), I want a tank.

At least for the next 10-12 years, I will not be living aboard > 2 weeks at a time. Our boat of choice need only be big enough for the 3 of us. The longest open water distances I can realistically see myself in would be 200-nm or so (Maine - NScotia, or NScotia - Newfoundland), and though those seas can be rough, I'd be carefully choosing when to cross, and then, only after further honing my open water skills aboard other's boats. The vast majority of time would be spent gunkholing shallow water on weekends. I am not out to race, and my instincts keep me away from flotillas of yachts with freakish people wearing brightly colored sweaters. OOps, hope I don't get flamed.

My time line to search seriously will be later this year in the fall / winter 2011, when I have hope to have a little cash to throw around. Details and further begging to follow.

Please keep the ideas on this topic coming. I'm posting another thread request about your favorite travel writing - books and blogs that are must have's about liveaboard / long-distance cruising. Thanks
Sam

Stillraining · 01-03-2010, 20:02

Nice post Paul

Therapy · 01-03-2010, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by tellytulear

I know there's exceptions, but why is the average boat length not getting smaller ?

I think the fact that fiberglass is a small portion of the overall cost so it is really not that much more cost to build a bigger boat. Yea, I know the stays are longer, the mast is taller and the motor is bigger, but still........

**Pblais** · 01-03-2010, 21:37

Quote:

I think the fact that fiberglass is a small portion of the overall cost so it is really not that much more cost to build a bigger boat

It is cheap stuff for sure. Amazingly cheap compared to the craft / art of wooden boats when you pay the people that do it a real wage. When you consider the intense costs of the parts of the boat that are attached to the hull it is staggering. They include large costs in materials that are custom as well as the large amount of labor that is required. Most components are not mass produced so a one at a time production process adds even more. Consider something as elegant as a jib sheet winch. Take one apart for a treat in a pure art form that is 100% hand made even after the the material is created at great expense.

Nothing bad about all of that but it is why costs run so high. Romance ain't cheap in salt water.

Joli · 02-03-2010, 03:26

Actually the hull cost is only about 20% of the overall project cost. Top end boats may spend more on interior woodwork and varnish then actually building the hull and deck. Add the price of sailing gear, keel, steering gear, running gear, hatches, cushions, electronics, sails, cruising gear....... the list is quite endless and you start to see where the money goes.

Can you blame the builder for moving into larger boats? Small boats have all the same gear of a larger boat but it is tougher to install since room is limited. They simply can't charge enough for a small boat to make money. Tartan claims they don't make a profit on thier 34 even though it sells for $250k.

The day of buying a new pearson 26 for $12k is long gone. Even a Hunter 27 is bumping the $100k mark.

Curmudgeon · 02-03-2010, 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by tellytulear

wow
But I still think I'd rather have a boat that has been extensively proven over time to take a beating, even though I hope to not have it out in roaring 40's weather much. I have a wife and 6 yo daughter, and safety is #1 for us. I love the cocoon-like look of the Norsea / Falmouth Cutter / Dana24 / Flicka. I love sailing comfort & beautiful lines ( I can't swim around these parts without being bashed in the head by Morris / Paine / Hinckley yachts), but at the end of the day (or 'days' if were talking about FLicka), I want a tank.

Well, if you have the money...

1980 Shannon Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Or if you have the money and want a Morris...

1977 Morris Yachts Frances Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Or, if you don't have the money...

1982 Cape Dory D Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

CarlF · 02-03-2010, 08:11

Based on your comments, you might want to take a closer look at a Shannon. "Tank" is a pretty accurate description - not just in the hull layup but the chainplates, rudder, bulkhead tabbing, etc. - Many have done multiple circumnavigations.

An interesting option would be to buy an older one and have Shannon refurbish it next winter. They do this as a business - turning out "new - old" Shannons for far less than a new build.

I expect other builders do this too. It illustrates why builders aren't building small high quality cruising boats anymore. They can't build a new one for the price you can buy and fix up an old one.

Carl

tellytulear · 02-03-2010, 11:55

Yes Curmudgeon &CarlF - Shannon looks like a great choice - I'm loving those 30 y old 28footers, and the thought that they could professionally rehab one from that era, for anything beyond the woodworking skills that I'm limited to at this point. Ironically, I grew up near that town in RI and know some people who used to work there - might be a good reason for a homecoming to discuss their pricing / estimates on previous projects.
Thanks again - Sam

topfish · 24-11-2011, 01:15

Aked the same question! First, builders are building to market demands! Less then 1 - 2 % of people are actually crossing oceans. The other 98 % enjoy coastal cruising! I consider under 30' small BW boats. Nor'sea still build a 27 (price is about 150k)- thats before adding all the things we want to go BW cruising! I watched the PSC Dana come back (yet, it really has not). I will explain. PSC did not want the mold- they knew they could make no money! It was bought by a local dealer in PNW. Base price is 150K- all the options would easily bring the boat up to 180K (thats before adding the things needed for BW. Seacraft in WA state built a boat- initailly had it on market- I have watched the price come down to 120K (not selling)- think it just recently sold (still listed on YW just not on Seacrafts website. I spoke to PSC about the Flicka 3 months ago. They have the mold. I was told, they would consider building it on a per order basis. Base price would be about 110-115K- and I mean BASE BOAT! To many people would rather buy the Base Hunter 33 at 108K then the Flicka at 115K. That is the dilema we lovers of small BW boats must endure.
Hear has been my solution, look at older Cape Dory 28 and the like. Most semi restored can be found at around 30K-Put another 30 K in upgrades. I believe you can have a really nice clasic BW boat for under 70K. I an seeing clean, Cape Dorys, Sabres, Tartans, Allied Luders,etc real reasonable. Shannon 28's a little less (only 50 were made). I have watched a very clean shannon 28 sitting at Friday Harbor, WA forsale over at least 5 years. It is there every time I show up on guest moorage. He his asking around 46-50K. Think he even now has it on YW. Lust my 2 cents with a little frustration at boat building trends. Thanks for allowing me to vent!

psk125 · 24-11-2011, 08:41

Builders are definitely looking at their market. The people with money to buy boats have plenty of money to buy boats. They can afford $500k or more for a new boat, and don't want a small boat for $500K - it would make them look like they got taken. Builders make more profit on larger boats, as already noted, so they are happy to oblige. People without money to buy boats cannot afford to buy a new boat, so there is no point in making smaller boats: there is no one to buy them.