When is a boat too big?

[Telesail]

Just before hitting 60, we faced a similar decision and based on our experience, the step up from the 46’ should not be a problem as the extra 9’ has the effect of giving you more time because the extra inertia helps. I don’t recall whether the Sense 46 has twin rudders but think it does and and so you will not struggle with learning new techniques in the absence of prop wash for close quarters maneuvering.

My wife and I moved up from a B41 to a 54ft Alubat Cigale. The thing we were surprised by was the geometric increase in loads on all lines - we could manhandle the Oceanis but were really glad that we had ‘overspecified’ all of the deck hardware (versus the builder’s calculations and recommendations). It sounds like you are thinking along the right lines and there is no reason why you should not be able to handle the bigger boat with a decent bow thruster.

The difference for us is that we only displace around 12 tons in cruising mode versus twice that for the B55.1 and so you will probably have a smoother ride. Based on the number of cruising couples we meet in the Caribbean in 54DS, Garcia’s, X’s etc in the mid-50s range, the market seems to have spoken - 55ft is not too big.

[s/v Jedi]

I have a problem with the “too big to handle” crowd when talking about 50-60’ range. I think all those comments come from sailors who never had a boat in that size because compared to a 45/46’ boat it will actually sail easier. It’s that or people have old school salt & tar boats in mind

[conchaway]

If you don't feel confident. It's too big.

[ohthetrees]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I have a problem with the “too big to handle” crowd when talking about 50-60’ range. I think all those comments come from sailors who never had a boat in that size because compared to a 45/46’ boat it will actually sail easier. It’s that or people have old school salt & tar boats in mind

I see what you are saying. Bigger boats are often more automated. But I’m talking about getting anchor up when windlass fails. Hoisting sails when electric winch fails. Having to climb up to boom rather than stand on deck when slide jams reefing in high wind. Modern big boats are easy to handle when everything is working. But we all know how that goes.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by ohthetrees

I see what you are saying. Bigger boats are often more automated. But I’m talking about getting anchor up when windlass fails. Hoisting sails when electric winch fails. Having to climb up to boom rather than stand on deck when slide jams reefing in high wind. Modern big boats are easy to handle when everything is working. But we all know how that goes.

If you can get your anchor up by hand on a 46’ boat then your anchor is too small :-)

Seriously, the points you list are non issues. When my electric winch fails, I stick a handle in and crank it by hand. Takes a little longer but turns just as easy as on the 46’er.
Same for windlass, plus that gear never fails. A longer boom is not higher up from deck... that is just a design choice. I see cats that have their boom up there where I have spreaders but others (same size) have their boom just as low as me.

When I’m talking about easier to handle, it isn’t about automation, it is about a boat that is easier to handle in same conditions with same systems. A 60’er is easier to handle than a 45’er which is easier to handle than a 30’er. I have sailed the whole range, current boat the easiest to handle by far.

[roland stockham]

Couple of points. If the primary reason for the increase in size is to accomadate guests what about arranging for them to say at a marina hotel, they can have all the space and services they want and day sail with you as much as they want. You get to stay with a boat that is right for you and even if you paid all the hotel cost it would still likely save you money compaired to swapping to a bigger boat.
Second point is that, in my opinion, every 10ft increase in boat length over 35ft halves the fun of sailing. Big cruising boats tend to feel heavy and unresponsive and require so much wind to drive them that they only sail efficiently on the sort of days you would rarther stay in port. 10kn cruising speed sounds great untill you realise that you need 20-25kn wind speed to make it. 'light air' in a 65 is 15-18 kn

[TrentePieds]

Haddock:

You took my point correctly :-)! It is not the tonnage of the vessel that is the limiting factor - it's that nebulous amalgam of your knowledge, your skill level, your confidence, you physical fitness and your forehandedness. Muscular strength is not often required in a well-found vessel, and lack thereof can be compensated for by "mod cons", although there is a price to be paid for that in terms of complexity and therefore in difficulty and cost of keeping the VESSEL fit!

Never forget that as a cruising man, YOU are the skipper ALL the time. which means that you should ALWAYS be able to single-hand you boat and her human cargo well enough to get her safely into harbour.

If doubts that you can do that assail you, THEN you know that your boat is too big :-)!

Cheers

TP

[TrentePieds]

I'm with Roland on his second point. The obvious remedy against the lack of fun of handling a BIG boat, is to have the boat big enuff to house, say, a 470 dinghy in the dinghy garage :-)!

TP

[oceanshoretiga]

The previous posts have canvassed many of the practical and physical issues around such a large boat.

However, there are other dimensions to this issue. This is certainly an interesting 'first world' problem and, as others have pointed out indirectly, getting bigger and bigger actually has social and environmental consequences. My points below only apply to those who assume certain personal responsibility for social and environmental impacts (I am no saint in this regard, either).

Fuel load and use has direct impacts on climate change and as has been said, downsizing would actually reduce fuel contribution to climate change.

While a larger boat may get into a smaller bay/marina/harbour, the larger the boat the more it restricts the number of boats that can be accommodated. I have seen this personally at a local and very popular island (Rottnest) as the larger and larger boats actually exclude users; there just isn't room. This is a direct social impact of a larger boat.

Yes, a larger boat would come with a larger (and faster) tender that could get you through an anchorage quickly. Speed in an anchorage is not only dangerous but creates discomfort for others.

The manufacture and maintenance of ever larger craft has a direct consequence for our environment as well, of course, including the inevitable use of more plastics with the almost inevitable contribution to our 'plastic oceans'.

Larger and larger boats also come with more equipment and more cleaning. Breakdowns and 'dirt' require a lot of work and staff to help with these issues is not always available. While hiring locally is a worthwhile contribution to the local economy, time and delays go with mechanical and electrical problems.

I remember the days when an average cruising yacht, including for ocean passages, was 36' to 40'. Are we any happier or any safer with larger yachts? Haddock1 has asked for opinions, all of which will be personal. Mine, is downsize.

Sail well!

[donradcliffe]

You know your boat is to big for you and your wife when you have to climb mast steps or a ladder to put the sail cover on, or tighten up the pin in the mainsail tack, or she can't lift the fenders, or.....You can get by when nothing goes wrong, but its no fun.

One of my fellow circumnavigators broke his ribs on his C&C 62 trying to get the mainsail cover on...it was a long way from the boom to the deck, and he was 60.

I want a minimum total crew of 4 to move 70 footers around--everything is bigger and heavier and when the ***** hits the fan 3 is not enough.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by ohthetrees

I see what you are saying. Bigger boats are often more automated. But I’m talking about getting anchor up when windlass fails. Hoisting sails when electric winch fails. Having to climb up to boom rather than stand on deck when slide jams reefing in high wind. Modern big boats are easy to handle when everything is working. But we all know how that goes.

Getting anchor up when windlass fails (rare): tie line to chain and run to electric sheet winch. Use sheet winch to pull anchor up.

Electric winches fails:. This never happens. They Fail as often as the starter motor in a car does.

Mainsail slide jamming:. Forget that. An electric in mast furling unit means no slides to worry about and push button reefing.

These systems are robust. They don't often fail and have manual backup or alternate plans if they do.

[Joli]

First of all, a beneteau 55 sense is not a big boat. It doesn’t weigh that much.


Second, handling a BIG boat isn’t that difficult if you plan for the ‘oh ****’ moment. Like the engine quits when you enter the marina.


Third, you have a lot of people here chiming in who’ve never sailed a big boat. Forget what they say, they don’t know.


Buy the Beneteau and have fun.

[lordgeoff]

Originally Posted by Haddock1

I am considering moving up in hull length from a 46 footer (sense 46) to a wide beam 55 footer (beneteau 55.1). The reason for the upgrade is our current vessel only has two cabins and I need more (for the kids when visiting) and secondly, my wife and I am about to retire (60 next birthday) and will be spending most of the year on board and we feel we need a bit more space as this will be our home from home. There will, for most of the time, just be my wife and myself sailing her around the Med. My question is for those couples that have made a significant leap in hull length, is this going to be too big for the two of us to handle (assume electric winches, thrusters and the like) or is there actually little difference other than the bow is further away from your nose. We will be mostly anchoring, however, taking such a large boat on windy days into marinas or topping up the tanks I find slightly intimidating. It's a big expense and don't want to regret it.

Have a look at the 4 cabin/4 head Beneteau 50.
Cockpit configuration makes it easy to handle solo or couple. PM me.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

You know your boat is to big for you and your wife when you have to climb mast steps or a ladder to put the sail cover on, or tighten up the pin in the mainsail tack, or she can't lift the fenders, or.....You can get by when nothing goes wrong, but its no fun.

One of my fellow circumnavigators broke his ribs on his C&C 62 trying to get the mainsail cover on...it was a long way from the boom to the deck, and he was 60.

I want a minimum total crew of 4 to move 70 footers around--everything is bigger and heavier and when the ***** hits the fan 3 is not enough.

Funny, I cover our main on our C&C 61 while standing on the deck with a continuous zipper while never leaving the deck. You would think that on a ketch rugged C&C 62 with a smaller mainsail they would have figured out a better system?

[sailon46]

7 years ago I went from Catalina 42 to a Beneteau 51.4 with a beam of 16 feet and 4 cabins with 4 heads. It was challenging at first but I keep the boat in the USVI BVI neighborhood and it is very rewarding. I find bigger boats to be easier to operate. I have seen all the Caribbean and I wouldn’t have done that with the Catalina 42. I think you are on the right path the 55.4 Beneteau is a beautiful boat for the Med you will be surrounded by mariners wherever you anchor that are familiar with your systems. Have fun and enjoy life while you can.
Ernie on the Mary Jane