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Old 02-12-2024, 10:26   #16
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

A few years ago an out of control Hanse hit my yacht in a Marina. My yacht is an Hallberg Rassy equipped with dinghy Davits on the stern. The hanse slid across my stern catching my Davits under his life line. All his stanchions fell down one after the other like Pins in a Bowling Alley. They were simply attached to the deck with surface screws. I can't imagine these would keep a person from falling overboard if put to the test. Looked as cheap as possibly could be.
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Old 02-12-2024, 15:38   #17
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

Owner, Hanse 461 from 2006.
It seems a lot of the production yachts have gone down the same path over recent years and build quality in a lot of the modern mono's and cats is questionable. However comments from non owners or those who have no direct experience should be ignored.
I have a Hanse 461 from 2006, epoxy build with a steel grid throughout which the keel is bolted directly to. For a soon 19 year old boat she remains solid, internal build quality is good and sails fantastic. Do your homework, speak to actual owners and buy for your needs.
Having said that the comment from Na Mara is a legit concern, not just for hanse's but all of the modern production boats.
Check https://youtu.be/92jj9g00n30?feature=shared
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Old 02-12-2024, 17:19   #18
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

Same here. Owner of a 2006 Hanse 461e. This is my second Hanse, the other being a 430e (the "e" stands for epoxy).
Very very solid boats, sail beautifully and are very comfortable at anchor.

I can't speak for the new ones, but the scuttlebutt (for what it's worth) is that they may not be built to the same standards as the ones from the 2000s, when Hanse were trying hard to establish themselves with a high quality product. For example, the new ones are no longer epoxy.

That said, they are still premium boats.
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Old 03-12-2024, 01:00   #19
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

I chartered a new Hanse 400e in 2006 with friends out of Sidney BC. We were the first charter after the boat was repaired after grounding on a rock, it's all rock in BC. The boat was on a charter with a hired captain when it ran aground. The boat was surveyed and they almost wrote the boat off. In the end they decided to repair the boat, which involved ordering a new keel from Germany. I have no idea about the condition of the keel grid, but I can only assume there must have been some damage if the boat was close to being written off.
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Old 03-12-2024, 12:22   #20
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

Honestly, with any boat out there, if you want to find problems, you can.
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Old 03-12-2024, 12:24   #21
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

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Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
Honestly, with any boat out there, if you want to find problems, you can.
A couple of times a year we are asked to do pre-delivery surveys on new boats ... You are correct.
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Old 03-12-2024, 17:09   #22
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

Perhaps a bit tongue-in-cheek and pessimistic:
Within a certain price range/targeted buyer group, what gets more sales at the boat show or dealership?
A few extra layers of fiberglass in the structure and good bonding techniques along with rig and mechanical/electrical/plumbing systems above reproach.
Or the thin-skinned eggshell with a spacious luxury apartment interior of "Ikea wood" that's all installed with some "miracle-in-a-tube" adhesive?
The wife smiles at her husband, and he whips out the checkbook.
He's happy because she's happy, and a sailing we will go.
Problems? those are for the next owner.
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Old 03-12-2024, 20:03   #23
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

The problem with structural interior hull liners is that in the event of a hard grounding the back edge of the keel is forced up into the boat which leads to delaminating of the hull liner from the hull together with stress cracking the liner. The only way to “fix” that is to remove most of the interior from the boat, repair the stress fractures in the liner and then try to reglue the hull liner back down on the hull again. Because its not really possible to get a proper vacuum seal over the hull liner in a boat that is finished and because the old glue can’t be removed, the reattachment of the liner to the hull is never as good as the original lamination. Often there parts of the liner that can’t be accessed to be glued or the liner can’t be put under sufficiently even load to assure a good mating during the relamination.

The whole repair is extremely expensive (when it happened to me the repair cost around 2/5 of the value that I eventually sold the boat for) and the end result is invariably a weaker and slightly deformed boat,

Seriously, a sailboat with an internal structural hull liner should be considered as a consumable product. Have fun with it but be aware that if you ground it hard the whole boat should be considered a right off or at least a boat that is thereafter substantially and irretrievable compromised.

Best regards

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Old 04-12-2024, 12:01   #24
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

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Seriously, a sailboat with an internal structural hull liner should be considered as a consumable product. Have fun with it but be aware that if you ground it hard the whole boat should be considered a right off or at least a boat that is thereafter substantially and irretrievable compromised.
Other than maybe steel hulled yachts, what sailboat would not be substantially compromised from a hard grounding?
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Old 04-12-2024, 12:20   #25
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

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Other than maybe steel hulled yachts, what sailboat would not be substantially compromised from a hard grounding?
Any boat with internal ballast will typically fair better in a grounding situation than an external keel. There will still be damage and a lot of that damage will depend on how the ballast was laid into the keel. gaps, etc. You do give up a lot of performance for that keel arrangement though!
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Old 04-12-2024, 14:08   #26
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

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Other than maybe steel hulled yachts, what sailboat would not be substantially compromised from a hard grounding?
Any with properly laminated keel grid visible when you lift the floor boards, and even when substantially compromised still repairable with reasonable costs. That and long keeled which may come without nothing more but cosmetics repair on the keel ..
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Old 04-12-2024, 15:06   #27
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

Re: What's the problems with Hanse's
We own a Hanse 458, it is solid glass from the waterline to the keel, it sails at approx 38degrees to windward at 8 to 9 knots in 10 to 12 knots of breeze. We are based in NZ and have sailed bin some really awful weather and although not fun the boat handled it well. We have spent 20 years sailing offshore and would not take this one away as it is a little light, in our opinion. But for gulf cruising it is perfect. The class and quality of finish is superior to some of the boats compared to here. Sharp corners, yes in some places, mainly doors, but really well curved edges on all other areas. We had our boat built at the same time as a friend had a Barvarian built. Both had the same wood finish inside (supposedly). He was surprised to discover his was in fact a printed paper finish made to look like wood. Ours may be veneer, but it is wood.
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Old 04-12-2024, 15:12   #28
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

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Other than maybe steel hulled yachts, what sailboat would not be substantially compromised from a hard grounding?
A Southerly provided the keel wasn't fully deployed and pinned. When not pinned, the keel is pushed up into the keel box as you ground.
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Old 04-12-2024, 21:52   #29
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

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Other than maybe steel hulled yachts, what sailboat would not be substantially compromised from a hard grounding?
Many, many years ago an editor at Yachting Magazine, (was it Bernedette Peters?) and her husband took a long trip to the Caribbean on their Alajuela 38
As bad luck would have it they sailed right thru a gap in a reef and continued on for some distance before the draft exceeded the depth of the water.
They were really and truly in a bad spot, the boat on its side and little places to embed an anchor.
They worked night and day rowing/walking out anchors and using the sheet winches for purchases on tackles, but progress was glacially slow, measured in inches or feet per day.
Do to sickness the husband had to fly back to NY for treatment, and the wife left also.
Meanwhile, the husband had passed away; so she gathered-up a million supplies and went back to the boat.
Hiring native crews, they blasted and cleared a channel and used the sheet winches to drag the boat, (still in its side,) several hundred yards back to deep water, (The sheet winches could withstand much heavier loads that the windless.
The hull was ok, the keel was ok, the rig was ok, and the engine still ran.
The paint and gelcoat were a bit worse for wear.
Having sailed on them I know of no fiberglass boat that could endure that except perhaps a W32 with all lead ballast.
If the W32 is a Sherman tank, the Alajuela 38 is an Abrams.
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Old 04-12-2024, 23:14   #30
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Re: Whats the problems with Hanse's

My new boat has a thick solid glass fiber layup from the waterline down to a stub keel with a lead shoe bolted to the bottom of that. There are three bulkheads (one at the forward end, one at the after end, and one half height one about 3/4 of the way aft) that are glassed into the hull and keel to distribute the loads of a grounding. A really hard grounding might cause the bulkheads to separate from the hull, but access to repair that would be easy and the repair once complete would be good as new.

Boats with glassed in floors, or even a glassed in interior structural grids are also eminently repairable should a grounding lead to separation of structure from hull skin. There are lots of ways to build a boat that results in a repairable object. Structural interior hull liners are more or less unique in their inability to be properly repaired upon separation from the hull. It’s a bad design for a sailboat. It might make for a cheaper sailboat that allows more people to get out on the water but it’s a sailboat that is one good collision with a rock away from being a very expensive yard ornament.Stay clear.
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