What type of sailboat is this?

[Finbar]

I'll try again.Hi folks, anyone any idea what make of boat this is? Had the pleasure of being on this boat some years ago but to my shame know nothing about her! She's a double ender, steel, about 25ft. Any info would be great.

Cheers.

[Peter1949]

Nice lines
Looks like 30 feet loa


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Finbar]

Yeah Pete, spent a week on her some years back in France, had a great time and now would like something like that myself to do the same thing again. Only this time maybe own it myself. Didn't feel like 30ft though but I'll take it.
Cheers.

[barnakiel]

Look up Dutch websites if you want something similar. Try at say botenbank and then keep on going.

If you are not hard pressed for steel, a Victoria 30 will be similar size and shape, perhaps.

There are heaps of fine double enders in Scandinavia and in the US, but again not steel ones.

b.

[barnakiel]

In broad terms, this is where you are headed:

Spitsgat Stalen kajuitzeiljac 266RA | Zeiljachten | Botenbank

We are in a 26 ft plastick doubleneder, so you can PM ask me anything you want to know about why one does not want a double-ender, esp a steel one ;-)

Cheers,
b.

[Finbar]

Hi, cheers Barnakiel.
The steel was good because of my landlubber skills at the tiller, but is not a prerequisite. I was looking for the make so I would be able to compare with others and your link has really helped. I have considered a Westerly Centaur which I think would be somewhat similar?
Basically we are looking for something which has a shoal draft to enable canal and river cruising, but which doesn't mind hugging the coast a bit. As we are just a couple of oldies with limited skills time and speed are not a concern. Don't think we'd want to handle anything much bigger than 30ft though.

Gosh! I love this forum, so many people taking the time to help out.
Many thanks friend.

[barnakiel]

Hi,

I think a Centaur has a flatter body and bilge keels. This may imply she will be slightly different from a 'spitsgater' (double-ender) that may show a deeper body with full length keel.

I have not sailed a Centaur but I can believe they will be great boats and preferable for protected waters and for exploring inlets.

You probably know the website of sailboatdata.com where you can look up various types of craft with pictures, drawings and relevant figures. You can look up Centaur there and also Victoria 26 (a smaller sister to Victoria 30). These will give you some idea of how they differ, on paper.

VICTORIA 26 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
CENTAUR 26 (WESTERLY) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Our own boat is very much like a Victoria and much as we know by now that this is too small for safe extensive voyaging, we also know that it is an easy and 100% sufficient a boat for 99.99% of our summertime adventures.

Have fun web-surfing now and sea-sailing later!

Standby,
b.

[Finbar]

Hey 'B', many thanks for taking the time and trouble to offer your experience and suggestions, I will be surfing as you say. Trouble is, the more you look the more you see the more you want.
A chap I met whilst on that boat in the pic was cruising through France in a Centaur having come back from the Greek islands, so I assumed the Centaur would be able to coast well enough. (though he was far more experienced a sailor than I)But I had it in my mind I might be able to do something the same, cruise through Holland, Belgium and France, out to the Med and coast as far as Greece. Time is not a problem and living money is the same whether you sail or stay on land. Boat money of course is always the issue hence something like the Victoria or Centaur and shoal draft.
I have owned a 10.5 mtr bay cruiser and have sailed a bit here and there (not for a while though) an now I've turned 60 I have a couple of little pensions to pay for things and a little for maybe a 25/30 footer to cruise without a rush. I suppose the biggest boat you can afford is always the best one.
I thank you for your help and value your opinion. Cheers Finbar.

[barnakiel]

Hi,

These are many things and I will try to share my opinion on some of them, where I feel we have some relevant experience.

First of all, I have the feeling that the waters you have in mind may be very conductive to travels in a BILGE keels boat (as well as a daggerboard/lifting keel boat). Little draft, ability to dry, do count heaps when you are in rivers, canals and in tidal places (all N of Holland, Belgium, France, Spain, etc.) And we do have friends who sail bilge keels boats far and away. (as well as no keel, daggerboard boats)

Then is the budget thing. Well. Some say it will cost you whatever you will pay for it, and I think these people know what they mean. Others will tell you that you can sail on any budget, and I think these people too are about right. So to sum it up: budget is NOT the limit. Sure thing, there will be a budget; but in fact you are only limited by your dream's limits. Last but not least, the boat will be only a part of the budget; most likely most of your money will go into marina fees, transit permits, commuting, mobile phone bills, groceries and wine/rhum/tea/coffee (tick off your choices).

Which in turn leads us to the size of the boat; and to the QUALITY of the boat.

Now, I will agree with those who say the size counts. I will also say that bigger boats can be better boats. And: boats too big are sure trouble. Still, how big a boat one needs is dictated by the job at hand. If you find a Centaur roomy enough, it WILL be big enough. And beamy boats are more roomy inside (as compared to narrower, double-ended, designs.) Our own boat is about 26 on the deck, some 9 ft across and some 4 ft deep. No standing height for me ;-(. And yet, we have sailed rtw and then again to the West Indies and back in this boat, and we have been living aboard for nearly 12 years now. So, here again, I must say size counts, but size is NOT the limit.

So, to sum it up: I think it is essential and very prudent to chose the best boat for the trip. And what the best is will depend on your minimum body comforts requirements, on where you sail, and on what boat choices you have made.

One last thing I want to take up is QUALITY. Look for quality boat: strong hull with excellent rudder design/build, perfect mast support with adequate rigging attachment points (chain plates, etc.), sound engine of adequate power, good sails, etc. etc. If I were to balance quality vs. size, I would go in the better but smaller boat. I simply do not want to spend my days fixing my boat up. I want to bask in the sun, sip my drink and talk to other dreamers and doers on the Cruising Forum.

Take it slow, think it twice, but DO give it a shot. Do not let adventure slip away. Dream, do, repeat ;-)

Big hug,
(from Las Palmas, Canary Islands)
barnakiel

[Finbar]

Many thanks Barnakiel, I will take on board (no pun intended) all you suggest.
Our needs are simple, and of course you are right, the quality side of the equation is the way to go.
We haven't met, but if we do a drink will be coming your way.
I will try and keep you posted on how things go.
Best wishes to you and yours.
Finbar.

[libramax]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

We are in a 26 ft plastick doubleneder, so you can PM ask me anything you want to know about why one does not want a double-ender, esp a steel one ;-)

OK, I'll bite: why does one not want a steel double-ender? I liked the boat in the pic, I could see myself wandering the waterways of Europe in that.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Finbar

Many thanks Barnakiel, I will take on board (no pun intended) all you suggest.
Our needs are simple, and of course you are right, the quality side of the equation is the way to go.
We haven't met, but if we do a drink will be coming your way.
I will try and keep you posted on how things go.
Best wishes to you and yours.
Finbar.

Great! Let us know how things go. I am sure you will find a fine boat, there are plenty of them around. It is the buyer's marker.

Happy sailing!
b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by libramax

OK, I'll bite: why does one not want a steel double-ender? I liked the boat in the pic, I could see myself wandering the waterways of Europe in that.

No problem. It is a forum. You ask, I will try to explain what I mean.

NOT a double-ender: because its fine aft end limits storage aft (as compared to a flat transom boat of the same length), because they roll downwind abominably (OK, I know that hydro-dynamically most old flat transom boats are in fact double-enders too), because they cannot be docked stern-to, etc., etc., etc.

NOT an old steel boat: because except for the odd ball one owned by a rich and knowledgeable owner, an old steel boat may give its new owner a maintenance headache before it gives them some cruising pleasure.

Sure thing, a well built and well maintained steel boat is a great asset in cruising. Then again few are.

I too could easily pic myself cruising the canals of France in a fine steel double-ender, sipping fine Burgundies. I have very rich imagination. Hence my original comment.

Cheers,
b.

[weavis]

The Centaur is a fine boat.

Given your cruising plans, I would point out the following that need consideration.

Firstly, the Centaur does not have a shower or a lot of space for extended cruising. Is it capable of handling the scenario you envision? Perfectly but....... its a little small and with two on board full time, you may just wish for more creature comforts. Many have sailed across the world in them, but you deserve a little more comfort than a Centaur provides. It is also moderately slow.

Secondly. The Med is a fickle area for sailing. You will find that unless conditions are right, and they seldom are, your sailing will consist of 30% and the motor will be on the rest of the time. Ive been lucky at times, and the other times Im glad I had a quiet motor. Although a keen sailor, I have come round to the idea of a Catamaran with dual engines for the Med, or a motor sailer simply because of the weather condition experienced in the area I want to be.

If you want ultimate space and luxury, and yet with a beam that will traverse the French Canals and do the Med in style, (under 15 foot) A catamaran would be a good way to go. A Catalac, Gemini 105MC, Prout, etc. The Catalacs starting at 16K Sterling.

If you want to stay single hull, I would strongly encourage you to find a 30-35 footer with creature comforts and an economical engine because it will be used a lot.

I dont know what your budget is, but a quick look on the EBAY.co.uk will give you an idea of what is available in this buyers market.

As a Westerly Centaur owner and lover, and trusting the marque completely, I still would look elsewhere for a faster and more accommodating vessel for extended cruising.

Best wishes in your searching.

[Finbar]

Hey Weavis, thank you! Yet another example of this forum offering help and sound advice.
I hadn't considered a cat thinking they would be too big for canal type cruising (which I think may be the majority of the time ) or indeed anything in the 35ft range thinking the draft would be a problem. What you say about the med makes sense, but as I mention, friends of ours cruised through there in a centaur and seemed to do ok, and we had a pleasant experience on the boat in the pic so that was what turned my mind in that direction. We once had a 10.5 cruiser with all the comforts (that the boats in question don't seem to have) but I'm not sure I would have coasted down the med with any real peace of mind, hence looking for something with sail that would serve both options.
As for budget, as always that's a tough one. We wanted something that was sound yet if left in various places throughout europe we wouldn't be continually worried about a massive investment sitting somewhere for a few months. That's not to say we don't care, it just has to be a balance between the cost and usage. I think I've just written something really dumb!
I think I'll have a browse through the things you suggest.
Thanks to you and to 'B' for you kind input! Cheers!
Finbar.