What to Buy - C&C or Northshore 38's

[briesey]

Hi, I’m new to this forum and a keen sailor that’s trying to make a difficult decision on a cruiser for my wife and I, currently looking at 1) C&C Landfall 38 and 2) Northshore 38, both yachts in the same money and comparable equipment, comes down to final survey I know but looking for any additional information or feedback you may have on preferences and additional technical information. We plan to use the boat for bay cruising and in the future sailing the east coast of Australia and Pacific Islands. Thanks for your help!

[Sabbatical II]

With a stated displacement of only 4950kg, the Northshore 38 is very light for a 38 footer. This made it a great club racer and many have done Sydney to Hobarts. It has an easily driven hull which might make it great for inshore and coastal cruising but for crossing oceans I would want something a bit sturdier. And of course, this is the opinion of someone who has never sailed on one. Does anyone know if Northshore are still in production?

[Coops]

Have sailed on Northshore 27 and 33, found them both to be a bit tender. Most of Northshore's designs were Peter Cole's from my memory. I used to know John Buck, who owned the company at one time back in the 80's, before the 38, and he suggested that coastal work was the most that they were designed for. Maybe the 38 was different, i do not know.

Coops.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, briesey.

[briesey]

All thanks for the replies, I will leave the post running to see what else I can learn, am sailing the C&C this coming weekend so will see how she goes, will report back. In the Melbourne area if someone can recommend a competent survey(er) would be appreciated.
Briesey

[Coops]

---------I spoke today to the folks at work, a chandlery, and one of the guys who is very experienced said that he has sailed on a Northshore 38 and would take it out into blue water so i guess do not right it off yet. All suggested a Cavalier, a la Kay Cottee, as an great alternative though.


Cheers, Coops.

[briesey]

Originally Posted by Coops

---------I spoke today to the folks at work, a chandlery, and one of the guys who is very experienced said that he has sailed on a Northshore 38 and would take it out into blue water so i guess do not right it off yet. All suggested a Cavalier, a la Kay Cottee, as an great alternative though.

Cheers, Coops.

Thanks for asking around, comment taken on board....Briesey

[AHoushmand]

I am also a new member and struggling with a similar decision. I have narrowed down the search to an Islander 44. How would you compare the Islander 44 with a similar length C&C.
Any feedback would be most appreciated.

[Spokes]

Just picking up on the Cavalier 37 comment I happen to have one for sale that is very well equiped for cruising.Similar size to the NS 38, the C&C 38 is a little larger internally.
Check out our private listing on the coastal passage web site or through Vicsail at Pittwater.

[Cherp]

The northshore 38 is more racer than cruiser. They have a huge main which could tend to remove your head in an uncontrolled gybe. Tend to agree with those suggesting the Cavalier 37. Don't know the c and c.

[briesey]

Originally Posted by Spokes

Just picking up on the Cavalier 37 comment I happen to have one for sale that is very well equiped for cruising.Similar size to the NS 38, the C&C 38 is a little larger internally.
Check out our private listing on the coastal passage web site or through Vicsail at Pittwater.

Thanks, I'm interested can you send more detail and possibly photos?

[Shibumik]

Briesey,

I owned a C&C 38 Landfall for 8 years. The boat is fast, but they don't call them C&C "Landfills" for nothing. It was their effort to create a cruiser from a racer. Absolutely not an offshore vessel!

My boat was quick, but required constant work. Be careful of soft decks and rudder issues. Had problems with rudder stocks and the nylon bearings.

I enjoyed my boat when it was running well. But would certainly never recommend it to anyone - especially for offshore. Perhaps you could look at other C&Cs, or Jeanneau. For what you're talking about, you might want to also check out the Passport 40.

BTW- used to have a summer home in The Gap in Brisbane. I really miss sailing Australia!

[briesey]

Thanks for your comments, looks like I missed out on the C&C after all this, I sailed the boat it sailed well and I called him afterwards (same day) to make an offer, but was beaten by 15min. As i always say there is a reason for everything........ for those that are interested the boat sold for 85k and the guy had just spent 40k on refit, problem was he had purchased another boat and had to sell.
So currently looking at a Cavalier 37 next weekend and thanks to all for your comments, think I'm on the right track again.

[Alasdair]

There were two Northshore 38s in the Sydney to Hobart 1998 Race that tragically claimed 2 lives and out of some 115 entrants only 44 finished. Both the North Shore 38s finished. These yachts have been represented in every Sydney Hobart Race since 1983. I think they can claim some credibility. They do tend to be more orientated to being a racing/
cruiser but many are cruised and can be sailed safely by a couple.

[JohnAdams]

While not wishing to create a Zombie thread, I want to make a few first-hand comments about the NS38 as a cruising possibility for a couple, given this thread is one of the very few discussions on the internet of the type.

The displacement of cruising NS38s (old and new) is 5455kg and the ballast ratio is just under 42 per cent for an SA/D of 19.25, a DLR of 165 and a cap ratio of 1.9. None of these numbers is radical by modern standards. These boats are slim - 37.99 feet LOA and 10.99 in the beam. These are very similar proportions to the J-111, which also has a similar LWL - 32 feet. Sail area is 59sqm, weighted to the main. The rig is 7/8ths.

As others mention up-thread, the main is the big engine. Early reefing and considered use of the traveller make any issues go away and in light conditions the large main is a boon. I would describe the design as tender - you need to think about reefing the main from about 18 knots to keep her on her feet and keep best speed. However, the boat is not crank. If you elect not to reef for whatever reason, the side decks will get wet and you'll slow down - that's about as bad as it gets. Typically, we dial in the equivalent of a deep third reef in 25-35 knots.

Because the narrow, low-slung hull form is so easily driven on all points, you can power down early and retain boat speed - we appreciate this quality when sailing 2-up. The NS38 is fast. Our top speed is 15.6 knots under reefed headsail running off in 2 metre seas and 25-odd knots of wind. Others have exceeded 20 knots under symmetrical spinnaker and reefed main.

With assym and main in the light she will generally give half wind speed from about 5-6 knots onwards, which is great if you're looking to conserve fuel. Reaching with this sail arrangement allows you to attain boat speed in around 15 knots of wind. With a large symmetrical you get to boat speed even earlier.

The boat tracks well and we've found she's more prone to rounding up in 15 knots under assym than to broaching in much heavier conditions under working sail. Compared to modern boats, the half-skeg rudder and slight integration of the skeg into the keel seem rather conservative elements of hull design but both features increase grip.

The NS is strongly built by modern standards with a fully-tabbed hull-deck join and a moulded toerail. The boat is not as heavy as a Cav 37 but is far more robust than something like a Farr 1107 - the NS weighs close to 2000kg more than the Farr and if you've been on both you can really feel the difference. The round bilge makes her much quieter at anchor than boats with flatter stern sections - none of that exhausting, high cadence rolling modern hulls are so prone to.

Space below is fine for 2 people for moderately extended periods but there's not the stowage of larger boats. The stern quarters are narrow, putting cockpit storage at a premium. You'll also need to think about the stern platform. We have a customised boarding platform that covers the miniscule sugar scoop when in the up position and could not live without it.

Carrying capacity is likely to be something that needs planning but it's better than expected. We carry 320L of water, 100L fuel, 420AH of AGMs, 320W of solar panels, inflatable, outboard, liferaft, etc, etc, etc, and the boat handles all this without great drama. If you're going to be away from services for many weeks, water and fuel will need to be managed carefully.

Having spent some time on a number of med-style boats, I've come to appreciate the strong points of the NS - windward ability, quickness of acceleration, modest draught, light load on the ground tackle thanks to a low and narrow shape, confidence-inspiring performance offshore and general good manners.

Something that needs to be mentioned is the vintage Boom Furl roller furling - yeah, it works fine in the harbour. But we've had 3 crew on the cabin top wrestling with it at sea when I'd rather they were all safe in the cockpit. Ours has also fallen in half in 25 knots (the twisting action imparted by a preventer unwound a key hex bolt), precipitating a hurried stop for replacement hardware. If you intend to go anywhere in an older NS38, try to find one with slab reefing and reefing lines led aft.

A particular attraction of these boats is that there are plenty of them around in decent condition for very little money. Whether the equation adds up depends on how far you intend to go.