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Old 20-06-2020, 11:45   #16
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

First question is what is blue water and is it different than green water? What about when the sky is grey and foreboding? Will it survive that colour. 🤷*♂️.
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Old 20-06-2020, 18:35   #17
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

The water is blue...boats sail on water...so all boats are bluewater boats
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Old 20-06-2020, 19:14   #18
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

It sure helps if the owner used it recently, and regularly.
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Old 21-06-2020, 00:45   #19
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

Hi I bought a 1993 Island Packet 32. Here is all the things I would look for on an IP
1. Most important - CHAIN PLATES. IP's older than 1999 used inferior metal for the chain plates. They could be corroded and you cannot tell since they are imbedded in the hull. $15000 to change them and a month of work tearing out the inside of the boat. To be avoided if possible.
2. Charge controller. Mine had the original and it was not up to speed. Nothing smart about original charge controller and I replace 4 AGM batteries twice.
3. Hull. In newer IP's they reinforce the hull with coosa slates. Otherwise the hull can flex. This in spite of IP reputation. When I sold my boat I had to repair - ouch $15000
4. Windless. Mine had never been serviced. When I tried to service the windless (Lofrans) I sheered the bolds effectively destroying the windless. Ouch, $2200 mistake.
5. Reefing. The surveyor never reefed the sails and my reefing system was useless. Ouch $1200 repair.
6. Engine mounts. I had to change mine. Again useless surveyor should have seen it.
7. Electronics. Forget it. Get them replaced. Most likely too old
8. Be weary of different equipment manufactures. Mine had Garmin and Raymarine. It worked until you had to update software. The only way to update Raymarine autopilot is through MDF. Mine was Garmin. Therefore either had to remove autopilot and take into shop or have electrician come to bot with Raymarine MDF to update software.
9. MMSI. If your VHF has MMSI get the owner to release the number so you can reuse it. Otherwise normally have to send VHF unit to factory for reset.
10. DON't trust the surveyor. In my opinion they don't have IQ's above room temperature. Go for a lengthly sea trail with an competent captain and to check boat out.
11. Engine control panel. Mine did not work had to change tach and temp gauge. Hard to find parts for older boats.
And of course bottom paint, sails, rigging - standing and running need to be checked.
Good Luck
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Old 21-06-2020, 05:55   #20
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

Always exciting as well as nerve-racking when settling on the ONE boat, but following the resources/advice already provided will help...visit/inspect as many boats as possible, crawling over/in/around, and asking questions no matter how "simple" they may be. Would also ask for receipts for work done. This will expand your knowledge & confidence when you finally make an offer and own...I am a print book person & dont live aboard so have the luxury of space, which brings me to recommending "Desirable & Undesirable characteristics of Offshore Yachts" by tech com of the CCA, edited by J Rousmaniere. Admittedly dated, copyright 1987, but arguably one of the must consider sources for offshore boats. contributors are a who's-who of yacht design; O Stephens, R McCurdy, B Lapworth, R Stephens, et al..good reference & reading in the new england winters. enjoy the hunt...
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Old 29-06-2020, 07:37   #21
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

In your price range, your easiest filter will be 'what's available in my area' - where do you live?
What's your sailing experience - and why are you looking for a Bluewater boat specifically?
Where do you intend to sail - and when?
How much $ will you have available to equip the boat with what you want/need?

Of the boats you listed (how'd you come up with that list?), I'd like the Pacific Seacraft - I doubt you'd find a 37 for that money, but you might get lucky with a 34 or 31.

Good luck!!
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Old 29-06-2020, 08:20   #22
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

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Originally Posted by Bill Balme View Post
In your price range, your easiest filter will be 'what's available in my area' - where do you live?
What's your sailing experience - and why are you looking for a Bluewater boat specifically?
Where do you intend to sail - and when?
How much $ will you have available to equip the boat with what you want/need?

Of the boats you listed (how'd you come up with that list?), I'd like the Pacific Seacraft - I doubt you'd find a 37 for that money, but you might get lucky with a 34 or 31.

Good luck!!
It's an ever morphing list 🥳 as I dive into more resources some boats fall off and others fall on. my master plan- buy a boat a month or two before my lease ends, try to get all the fixups that would have to happen on the hard done, (yeah okay probably going to have to mess around with that for longer). But end goal is to liveaboard, do small weekend cruises until I have the money saved up for a real passage. End travel is from US to New Zealand.

Sailing experience right now - reading up on basic maintenance, and I'm slowly getting ASA certifications through the next few months. (Through asa 104 after these next two weeks, covid willing) It's a work in progress. That said the New Zealand trip is a few years out.
And right now I'm in Dallas, so I'm going to have to move regardless, but my job is now remote so I'll still have a healthy income to support this and to support outfitting process

I know this isn't the most ideal trajectory or traditional plan, but I also know whatever divine force there is out there keeps giving me a slap on the back of my head when I start thinking about elongating the plan or start having doubts about how achievable it is 🤣🤣🤣 so really I need to know as many specifics as possible to throw at the universe to materialize such a boat come August/September, and have the skillset to validate this myself before the survey process
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Old 29-06-2020, 08:50   #23
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

To be brutally honest....If you don't know what to ask.....when you get the answers, will you know what they mean? You can be advised to ask about the age of the running rigging, standing rigging, cutlass bearing, shaft seal, etc. Are you familiar with what is an expected service period for these items? If someone tells you the standing rigging was replaced 8 years ago, are you prepared to determine how much usable life remains in them? How about looking at the standing rigging?

Get a survey
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Old 29-06-2020, 09:58   #24
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

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To be brutally honest....If you don't know what to ask.....when you get the answers, will you know what they mean? You can be advised to ask about the age of the running rigging, standing rigging, cutlass bearing, shaft seal, etc. Are you familiar with what is an expected service period for these items? If someone tells you the standing rigging was replaced 8 years ago, are you prepared to determine how much usable life remains in them? How about looking at the standing rigging?

Get a survey
I mean for me at least - the point of asking what to ask is not to just then regurgitate all of this when looking at a boat. It's so I know what I need to dive deeper into. There's so many components on a boat, and not all of them need to be in tip top shape. I've got a few months before I can really decide on anything, so I'm trying to efficiently prioritize research as best as I can.

So what I'm looking for is right now - what do I absolutely need to be aware of for a sound boat. I'm not rich enough to get 30 surveys, so if I can learn the crucial bits myself I can cross boats off before the survey. I'd never buy a boat without a survey. But I also wouldn't blindly trust a survey to be fully accurate anyway.

So for instance - after the rigging conversations I've had since this post, I've been able to look into okay I need to bring binoculars to actually get an okay look and check swages for excessive rusting or cracks, look for cracked strands in the wire. (Would love to go up and down the mast and shrouds with a magnifying glass but doubt they'd allow it. And the general rule of thumb of replace rigging every 10 years.

So this is really more of a post to okay - key components to look into and be extra aware of. As the saying goes "you don't know what you don't know". So I'm trying to figure out the best list of what I don't know in order to remedy in a timely fashion
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Old 29-06-2020, 23:08   #25
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

Check out YouTube channel “Sailing Britican”. They produced a booklet with checklist to take with you when looking at Bluewatet cruisers think it’s also on their website , We found it very useful.
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Old 29-06-2020, 23:39   #26
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

An owner who loved his or her boat will be happy to walk you through every corner of the boat and point out every improvement and deficiency. That's a good sign I think.
Looks like you are focusing on long keels with no keel bolts, so you can take those off the list. If you focus on Cape Dories and Pacific Seacrafts then build quality will be good.
Chainplates and thru-hulls... always good things to scrutinize too. Chainplates should show no leakage or cracks. Ask if they have been replaced. Thru-hulls should be well-mounted and functioning perfectly.
Engine, transmission and shaft and seal should be gone over well. It's not just hours. I learned that one the HARD way!
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Old 30-06-2020, 03:38   #27
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

Focus on the things that can't be changed. Hull and underwater appendages. Practically speaking, the mast. The arrangements below (head should be at the base of the companionway and you should be able to wedge yourself securely in the galley on a passagemaker; can you sleep comfortably underway and at anchor?). You can upgrade rigging, upgrade systems.

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10. DON't trust the surveyor. In my opinion they don't have IQ's above room temperature. Go for a lengthly sea trail with an competent captain and to check boat out.
Some surveyors are better than others. Some won't look at anything that requires disassembly (even screws in an access plate). I've never run across one that was very good at engines; get an engine survey and draw oil for analysis. Get a separate rigging survey as well. Surveyors are about universally bad at electronics. "Powers up and appears to function" is not a survey. Is firmware up to date? How old are the charts? Has the autopilot fluxgate compass been swung? Ever?
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Old 30-06-2020, 05:56   #28
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

Bluewater is too often a name for an old design.
ITA categories for offshore more than 200 miles is a Cat.:"A"vessel, winds to 40 knots. A Category "B" would be good for Carribean island hoping i.e. waves to 4 meters and less than 200 miles offshore,
cat. "B" and "C" for lakes and rivers. Ask your broker.
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Old 02-07-2020, 00:38   #29
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

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Pacific Seacraft, and Island Packet in the 30-35ft range, and my budget is $30-50k USD
In this price range you want to learn the extend of the damages and whether the boat is salvageable or only good for parts.
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Old 02-07-2020, 06:41   #30
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Re: What to ask when looking for a blue water sailboat?

Slm053-not to complicate matters more, but given your budget I am going to suggest a 3rd boat for your consideration, Bristol 35.5 (circa late 1970's). Very similar to dimensions of a 1970's PS 34 and within your budget...altho would expect to invest $$ and sweat equity in her. Admittedly suggesting another boat opens up a "can of worms" with multiple other boats as options too. Obviously I am biased, but I would argue well-founded so...oh, and green water lets you know you are in long island sound
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