What sailboat should I buy???

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

32 to 35 feet is sort of a sweet spot. Go bigger, and everything costs a bunch more. A 35' slip is a lot cheaper in most marinas than a 40' slip. A 9.9 long shaft outboard will push a 32 to 35 footer. Go bigger, and even getting any outboard at all mounted in such a way as to be useful is pretty dicey. Sails. Oh, haulouts. That bottom job on a bigger boat is going to cost some bucks. Diesel? You won't see a 15hp diesel in a 40 or 50 footer. Parts cost more, labor costs more. Outright replacement costs more. A nice beamy 35 really has quite a bit of room below, enough to sleep four and carry sufficient provisions for several weeks. A good 32 will do it, but maybe be a bit crowded. Trust me, a 50 foot boat is a white elephant unless you will be sailing with a crew of a half dozen or more. I have a 44 foot Bruce Roberts and no way would I ever consider a bigger boat. The 44 is very spacious and can carry literally tons of stuff if I need it to. Maintenance and minor repairs of the 50hp Westerbeast are quite enough, thank you. I don't want a bigger engine. I have so much headroom below that I can't reach the skylight to close it. A bigger boat? LOL. I am fine with what I got. And I would be just fine with a 35 or 36. Smaller I would not want. I have lived aboard boats and camps as small as 24 feet and no thank you, I will pass. Anything under 30 I don't want. I just spent 7 years living on a 27 that was quite roomy for a 27, but was nevertheless very crowded, for me and my gear and an occasional short time GF. I had to step out on deck just to change my mind. I often cooked out in the cockpit. And you want to sleep 4. Go with a 32 to 35 footer.



Any boat selling for over $5k you need to get surveyed to protect yourself. You will also likely need a survey to get insurance, which you will need if you expect to get a slip in a marina.



Have ready cash! Be ready, when that distress sale turns up and it has to be sold like right now. OTOH, be patient. Don't grab the first thing you see that looks like it might work out okay. There will always be another deal. But be ready to pounce (after your surveyor gives it the thumbs up) on that great deal that will otherwise go fast to someone else.



With that budget, try to come in at $10k for the purchase, and devote the rest to repairs, upgrades, and the first year of maintenance. You DON'T need a watermaker, or a diesel generator, or central air, or a hard dinghy, or radar, or satellite internet. You are on a very small budget. No useless frippery just cause it is kewl or has status or whatever. It's a boat, not a palace. The luxuries are nice but on that budget you simply can't afford much of that sort of stuff. You need a suit of working sails, and maybe a trysail and a storm jib. You need a good anchor, and plenty of chain, and if you don't have enough chain, enough nylon rode to make at least 200' total. A spare anchor and some extra chain is not an extravagence. Enough wire to make two stays, and terminal hardware to do it with. Required safety equipment. Radio, both fixed and handheld. A stove of some sort and for the record I HATE propane or gasoline. BOOM. Learn about diesel/kerosene cookstoves. They are way safer and you can always get fuel. Alcohol? The problem with alcohol is you can starve to death while you are cooking. It doesn't burn very hot. The advantage of course is if you use everclear or other grain alcohol, you can drink your stove fuel. Don't try that with methanol or denatured alcohol or other spirits. It can literally blind you or even kill you. Lets see... a cast iron skillet and a small dutch oven and a medium size soup pot. Forks and spoons. Aluminum pie pans... simply the best plate you can eat from, on a small boat. Washed soup or vegetable cans make drinking cups. When it gets rusty, wash out a new one. A pourover for making coffee. A couple of good chef knives that NEVER go on deck. A spatula and a pot spoon. Got a compass? Yeah. Fridge? Do without. Ice chest, for at the dock or maybe on the hook. An inflatable dinghy. Not much else.



Okay so that's your boat. How do you intend to educate yourself, assuming you will be your own skipper? What is your time budget, in years, before you sail off to margaritaville? That's an awful lot of responsibility, you know, and lots of ways to screw up and kill people. "I didn't know" is not a very good legal or moral defense. Just sayin. You got to learn about navigation and piloting, and just plain old boat handling. You got to learn about diesel engines. You got to learn about transmissions and shafts and bearings and stuffing boxes and props. You got to learn about different metals and how they react together, different types of rope and their uses, marine hardware, sails, sail handling, hull maintenance, damage control, firefighting, first aid, customs and immigration regulations, RULES OF THE ROAD which you should understand perfectly and completely and no exceptions or excuses, the legal and financial issues with owning a boat, and how to be in charge without being a PITA and alienating everyone aboard. NOW is the time to start your education, not after you own a boat.

A+1

[TrentePieds]

I'm with Boatie in lauding Growley's post. It's so good that we should make it a stickey so we can haul it out and lay it on future newbs when they ask the everlasting question of "what boat should I buy?"

TrentePieds

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by zippy

I totally agree with this. I only called BS on was what was said here:

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster
Trust me, a 50 foot boat is a white elephant unless you will be sailing with a crew of a half dozen or more.

Just because a 50' boat is expensive, it doesn't lead to the statement that 6 or more people are require to sail one.

Oh. That's not exactly what I meant. What I meant was no reason to go bigger unless bigger is needed. Especially on a tight budget. With a big crew and some sharing of expenses it might be a thing. No, a big crew is not necessarily needed on a bigger boat, though a couple is going to make sail handling, etc a serious effort at times. I had to shorten sail myself on my 44 Bruce Roberts (The Rigolets and bridges entering Lake Pontchartrain) only blowing 20 or 30 kt or so out of the North. It was a handful. Would have been not so bad, with lazy jacks (I had just bought the boat and had to move it right away) or boom or mast furling, and roller furling jib, but remember, that stuff doesn't always work as advertised. Sometimes stuff breaks on a boat, incredible though it may seem LOL. But yeah I am not arguing about that, when everything works as it should, a couple can handle a pretty big boat by themselves. The thing is, a 50' boat is a big package of unneccesary expense for a budget minded owner if he has four or fewer guests/crew aboard. If you can afford it, cool. Disregard. And more extra bodies COULD come in handy when things are going North on you in a hurry.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

32 to 35 feet is sort of a sweet spot. Go bigger, and everything costs a bunch more. A 35' slip is a lot cheaper in most marinas than a 40' slip. A 9.9 long shaft outboard will push a 32 to 35 footer. Go bigger, and even getting any outboard at all mounted in such a way as to be useful is pretty dicey. Sails. Oh, haulouts. That bottom job on a bigger boat is going to cost some bucks. Diesel? You won't see a 15hp diesel in a 40 or 50 footer. Parts cost more, labor costs more. Outright replacement costs more. A nice beamy 35 really has quite a bit of room below, enough to sleep four and carry sufficient provisions for several weeks. A good 32 will do it, but maybe be a bit crowded. Trust me, a 50 foot boat is a white elephant unless you will be sailing with a crew of a half dozen or more. I have a 44 foot Bruce Roberts and no way would I ever consider a bigger boat. The 44 is very spacious and can carry literally tons of stuff if I need it to. Maintenance and minor repairs of the 50hp Westerbeast are quite enough, thank you. I don't want a bigger engine. I have so much headroom below that I can't reach the skylight to close it. A bigger boat? LOL. I am fine with what I got. And I would be just fine with a 35 or 36. Smaller I would not want. I have lived aboard boats and camps as small as 24 feet and no thank you, I will pass. Anything under 30 I don't want. I just spent 7 years living on a 27 that was quite roomy for a 27, but was nevertheless very crowded, for me and my gear and an occasional short time GF. I had to step out on deck just to change my mind. I often cooked out in the cockpit. And you want to sleep 4. Go with a 32 to 35 footer.



Any boat selling for over $5k you need to get surveyed to protect yourself. You will also likely need a survey to get insurance, which you will need if you expect to get a slip in a marina.



Have ready cash! Be ready, when that distress sale turns up and it has to be sold like right now. OTOH, be patient. Don't grab the first thing you see that looks like it might work out okay. There will always be another deal. But be ready to pounce (after your surveyor gives it the thumbs up) on that great deal that will otherwise go fast to someone else.



With that budget, try to come in at $10k for the purchase, and devote the rest to repairs, upgrades, and the first year of maintenance. You DON'T need a watermaker, or a diesel generator, or central air, or a hard dinghy, or radar, or satellite internet. You are on a very small budget. No useless frippery just cause it is kewl or has status or whatever. It's a boat, not a palace. The luxuries are nice but on that budget you simply can't afford much of that sort of stuff. You need a suit of working sails, and maybe a trysail and a storm jib. You need a good anchor, and plenty of chain, and if you don't have enough chain, enough nylon rode to make at least 200' total. A spare anchor and some extra chain is not an extravagence. Enough wire to make two stays, and terminal hardware to do it with. Required safety equipment. Radio, both fixed and handheld. A stove of some sort and for the record I HATE propane or gasoline. BOOM. Learn about diesel/kerosene cookstoves. They are way safer and you can always get fuel. Alcohol? The problem with alcohol is you can starve to death while you are cooking. It doesn't burn very hot. The advantage of course is if you use everclear or other grain alcohol, you can drink your stove fuel. Don't try that with methanol or denatured alcohol or other spirits. It can literally blind you or even kill you. Lets see... a cast iron skillet and a small dutch oven and a medium size soup pot. Forks and spoons. Aluminum pie pans... simply the best plate you can eat from, on a small boat. Washed soup or vegetable cans make drinking cups. When it gets rusty, wash out a new one. A pourover for making coffee. A couple of good chef knives that NEVER go on deck. A spatula and a pot spoon. Got a compass? Yeah. Fridge? Do without. Ice chest, for at the dock or maybe on the hook. An inflatable dinghy. Not much else.



Okay so that's your boat. How do you intend to educate yourself, assuming you will be your own skipper? What is your time budget, in years, before you sail off to margaritaville? That's an awful lot of responsibility, you know, and lots of ways to screw up and kill people. "I didn't know" is not a very good legal or moral defense. Just sayin. You got to learn about navigation and piloting, and just plain old boat handling. You got to learn about diesel engines. You got to learn about transmissions and shafts and bearings and stuffing boxes and props. You got to learn about different metals and how they react together, different types of rope and their uses, marine hardware, sails, sail handling, hull maintenance, damage control, firefighting, first aid, customs and immigration regulations, RULES OF THE ROAD which you should understand perfectly and completely and no exceptions or excuses, the legal and financial issues with owning a boat, and how to be in charge without being a PITA and alienating everyone aboard. NOW is the time to start your education, not after you own a boat.

OK all you noobs, you can pretty much throw away all those other books about getting started with cruising! Growley pretty much covered it. Good thing he left out the part about heads... I'm trying to have breakfast here...

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Don C L

OK all you noobs, you can pretty much throw away all those other books about getting started with cruising! Growley pretty much covered it. Good thing he left out the part about heads... I'm trying to have breakfast here...

HAHAHA yeah left that out. And electrical and batteries. My bad.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

HAHAHA yeah left that out. And electrical and batteries. My bad.

Oh God please don't mention batteries and electricals! That's worse than heads! And, dare I say it? whatever you do, don't mention anchors!

It really is a wonder any of us actually get away from a dock!

[SaltSeaSailor]

Sea Sprite 34 might be in line with your budget and intended use.

Had one of these in Pontchartrain for a while, sailed it up from south Florida. Previous owners had it all over Caribbean out to Belize etc.

Luders designed, C.E. Ryder built. There are couple for sale on east coast right now.

[gallatin1988]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

32 to 35 feet is sort of a sweet spot. Go bigger, and everything costs a bunch more ... A nice beamy 35 really has quite a bit of room below, enough to sleep four and carry sufficient provisions for several weeks. A good 32 will do it, but maybe be a bit crowded ... Go with a 32 to 35 footer.

Any boat selling for over $5k you need to get surveyed to protect yourself. You will also likely need a survey to get insurance, which you will need if you expect to get a slip in a marina.

Have ready cash! Be ready ... But be ready to pounce (after your surveyor gives it the thumbs up) on that great deal that will otherwise go fast to someone else.

With that budget, try to come in at $10k for the purchase, and devote the rest to repairs, upgrades, and the first year of maintenance ...

How do you intend to educate yourself, assuming you will be your own skipper? What is your time budget, in years, before you sail off to margaritaville? That's an awful lot of responsibility, you know, and lots of ways to screw up and kill people. "I didn't know" is not a very good legal or moral defense. Just sayin ... NOW is the time to start your education, not after you own a boat.

Great post.

I have been boat shopping seriously for the last year or so. My overall budget is a little more than yours, closer to $50,000 to $60,000. My experience boat shopping mirrored Growley Monster's post. During that time both LOA purchase price have decreased, from 40' LOA to 32'-35' and from the $35,000 to $40,000 range to $20,000 to $25,000, respectively and toward to smaller end of both those ranges. Broadly speaking, I am now looking at 32' to 35' LOA small cruisers vintage 1960 to 1980.

As others have said, I would urge to think long and hard about what you really need (or think you need given your level of experience). It is also very important really understand and never forget that your purchase price is only one component in your overall budget.

Ignore the bling and concentrate first on finding a seaworthy and seakindly boat with a solid hull, rudder, spars, with simple, robust and easily repairable systems, and a proven track record doing what you want to do with the boat. Get a boat that is in as good overall condition as you can afford. It is very possible, for example, a $20,000 boat might represent a better value than a $15,000 in that it might cost more than $5,000 to bring the $15,000 boat up to the same condition as the $20,000 boat.

Like me, your greater danger is going TOO LARGE not too small. The greatest danger those of us on a limited budget face is running out of money not running up on to a reef or floundering in a storm.

Also bear the following in mind (from James Baldwin at atomvoyages.com):
"A final word of advice to the novice sailor - resist the temptation to undertake a major refit and extensive modifications on your new old boat right at the start. It's best to make only the obvious repairs needed and go out and sail locally and on some coastal vacation passages to learn exactly what is and what is not needed for you. Otherwise you may end up spending years and many thousands of dollars more than expected modifying your boat and then find out on your first ocean crossing that the boat is not right for you or those great ideas you had during the refurbishment did not work out that well at sea."

[capnorv]

My wife and I lived on a 34' Hans Christian for five years quite comfortably. That said, our 45' Hardin Voyager is definitely more comfortable and easier for larger groups. Both are quite easily single handed, but that said in a pinch crew is definitely appreciated.

[s/v Breakaway]

I would like to add my two cents on the size of the boat. I have a 34-footer and a 42-footer. The 42 is a luxury your budget can't afford. It's amazing how much more EVERYTHING for the bigger boat costs than the 34. Also, someone once said when considering size, look at the weight, not the length. My 34 weighs around 10,000 pounds and the 42 weighs 20,000-22,000 pounds, hence twice the cost, and more room than you really need. Look for something in the mid-30's. I would consider Pearson, Cal, Catalina, Beneteau, Hunter etc for your intended use.

[nzmal]

Hi Kfay
I loved reading your post. It sounded so much like our own sailboat buying journey several years go. We were pretty novice sailers and had never owned a keeler, just trailer yachts. We asked a heap of questions on this forum and got a heap of opinions. We looked at a whole mish-mash of boats and each time we checked out the next one we learned more about what was important to us.
We looked at a 54 ft Pugh and even put an offer in, boy am i glad it wasn't accepted, it would have been a major drain on our finances just mooring it let alone maintaining it. We put a lowball offer in on a rough Roberts 44 then thankfully pulled out (It sank when the new owners sailed it home)
We looked at lots of boats outside our price range and started getting depressed about what we couldn't afford without sellinng our home...
We ended up buying a clean, one owner 1974 Cavalier 39 and I'm really happy. Cost us around US$40K
It had old electrics and they all ended up getting binned other than the GPS, Radar and SSB (we run Navionics on 2 ipads and it works great for us)
We've re-rigged, rewired, repowered (Beta 43) over the last 5 years and its been expensive but a tremendous learning experience.
We bought her cheap knowing we'd get around to all of these jobs, but sailed her as bought for a season first.
We look at the experiences we've had aboard her and the family time and it's been a great investment in that sense.

My advice, buy a solid hull with good engine and standing rigging cheap and factor in replacing the rest as you can afford it and the need arises. Buying a smaller boat in good condition over a bigger boat in tired condition is the way to go.
We'll keep our boat for many years I'm sure, so the expense will pay back over time, but in the meantime we know the boat really well, and trust every part of her.
We're off to the Pacific Islands in her next year (from New Zealand) with our teenage kids...our last chaance for an adventure with them before they grow into their own lives... Don't wait for the perfect boat, it never comes, just find a good one and start living the dream.

[PortClydeMe]

A) One you can handle
B) One that floats
C) One you can handle

There you go. You can omit C, because it mirrors A.

Good luck.