What sailboat for family circumnavigation in €500k-€1M range

[eneas]

Hi all,
new to the forum; as a family we have limited experience in sailing - occasional charters, but now have a vision to aim for building up our knowledge and experience in the next few years to eventually take a sabbatical and circumnavigate the globe, explore the hidden corners and live a board for ~2 years before returning to busy lives in cities.

We aim to purchase a boat that will be bluewater capable, but also cosy and nice/modern design that feels good to live on. It should be capable of handling 10-15 years of light cruising with 1 or 2 circumnavigations. Ideally as a family we would consider something in the 54-58ft range to have enough space and comfort... but we are limited with a budget of between €500k (easy) to €750k (still doable) up to possibly €1M (getting into uncomfortable territory).
This budget takes out the Hallberg-Rassy 57 out of the equation as this one is closer to €2M. Bavaria C57, Oceanis Yacht 54 and similar are nicely within the budget, but but not sure if these are really sturdy and solid enough for circumnavigation?

Any help in pointing us in the right direction would be highly appreciated!!

[Manateeman]

Leave your family at home. Take your wife and yourself to a commercial fishing port where the weather is often stormy. Pay them to take you out in some nasty winter weather. When you come home and your wife is still willing, visit a few builders of aluminum offshore yachts and tell them your budget and ask if they know of a well maintained yacht for sale. Pay a surveyor that builders know and trust. Take a Yachtmaster course and courses professional mariners take in navigation, safety, firefighting etc.
Family. That responsibility means survivability. A vessel designed to take storms.
Strong enough to exceed passenger vessel standards because your family are the most valuable cargo you will ever have onboard.
If you are only sailing in the tropics island hopping from marina to marina, any OEM plastic junk will do. I know, I’ve built enough light, fast racer/cruisers.
They think they can outrun storms. Toy boats. They break like toys. They are so light you bounce around in them till your sick or broken and ready to ask to be rescued. Go take a look at what the sea can do to in a heavy, steel, powerful fishing vessel and picture some plastic and glass toy in similar conditions.
Ask merchant mariners and fishermen what works offshore. What you need to survive you will not find in some sailing magazine or by watching Ken, Barbie and the cat blog videos.
Good luck. PM me if you need anything more.
Captain Mark and his manatee crew.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by eneas

Hi all,
new to the forum; as a family we have limited experience in sailing - occasional charters, but now have a vision to aim for building up our knowledge and experience in the next few years to eventually take a sabbatical and circumnavigate the globe, explore the hidden corners and live a board for ~2 years before returning to busy lives in cities.

We aim to purchase a boat that will be bluewater capable, but also cosy and nice/modern design that feels good to live on. It should be capable of handling 10-15 years of light cruising with 1 or 2 circumnavigations. Ideally as a family we would consider something in the 54-58ft range to have enough space and comfort... but we are limited with a budget of between €500k (easy) to €750k (still doable) up to possibly €1M (getting into uncomfortable territory).
This budget takes out the Hallberg-Rassy 57 out of the equation as this one is closer to €2M. Bavaria C57, Oceanis Yacht 54 and similar are nicely within the budget, but but not sure if these are really sturdy and solid enough for circumnavigation?

Any help in pointing us in the right direction would be highly appreciated!!

Your plan is fine, and the budget is adequate.

Just a couple things to think about:

1. Buying a boat is not like buying a car. The purchase price of an ocean-going yacht is just the beginning. Even buying a new one, the cost to properly equip it is substantial. So if you're buying used, don't plan to spend more than 50% to 60% if your budget on the boat itself, and that is in case of a boat which has been really well maintained and is not too old.

2. Contrary to what some people will tell you, and with a lot of passion, people circumnavigate all the time in mass-produced inexpensive boats like Beneteau, Bavaria, Dehler etc. Circumnavigation in the trade winds latitudes is not all that challenging and most people who do that never experience really big weather. Where a really brick outhouse boat is needed is in high latitudes.

3. My own choice would nevertheless not be a mass produced boat. There are other drawbacks for long distance cruising -- tanks, storage, layout, cockpit, deck, rig. I would rather choose something like a Hallberg Rassy, Contest, Oyster, Moody (English one, not the Hanse built one), etc. You can buy a good Oyster 53 or 50-ish foot HR in your budget. Look hard to find something which has been really well maintained; ideally just after refit. Look for a cutter or a ketch rig. You want flexibility in the sail plan for this kind of sailing. You want to be able to easily reduce sail area in stronger weather.

4. Your plan to buy a larger boat is a good one. Over 50 feet is much more comfortable and safe for offshore sailing. Crossing oceans you need a lot of supplies, spare parts, and fuel. It's not fun having all that stuff stacked up everywhere because there is no storage space.

5. Two years is plenty of time to gain the skills you need, but you should do the RYA courses. This is also plenty of time to make sure the whole family really enjoys sailing and being at sea, and want to do this. Some people just don't like long passages or bad weather.

6. During those two years sail the boat as much as you have time for (including some longer passages as you gain experience) and fix everything yourself. A big part of long term cruising is maintenance and repair. If something breaks mid-ocean or on a remote island you will either fix it yourself or you won't have it. And fix it yourself with (1) spares you have on board; and (2) tools you have on board. You will need the whole two years before you leave getting the boat into proper condition and properly equipped.


7. To get a hint what it's like to cross an ocean, you need to go on a passage which is at least 3 or 4 days long. Only on about the third day under way do you start to get a real feel for the rhythm of life under way offshore. Many people find it extremely enjoyable (I do); others don't. You might find someone who will take you along as crew on something like that; note the crew wanted section of this forum. I recommend spending time as volunteer crew on other people's boats, on the longest passages you can find, while you're looking for your boat. You'll learn a lot and understand a lot faster what this is all about.


Good luck, and let us know how you get on. Ask your questions here; this forum is a treasurehouse of experience and knowledge, and people are mostly pretty generous with sharing it!

[aqfishing]

Get a Catamaran…Sail with the wind! Space and comfort will keep everyone happy!

[tkeithlu]

By the way, eneas, welcome to the forum.

[ol1970]

I’d add a couple of boats to the list: Amel 50 and the Garcia 52. It’s rare that you ever see them available second hand and there’s likely a good reason for that. The wife and I recently toured the HR factory in Ellös, and are quite smitten with their new 50 foot model, but seeing their craftsmanship it made me confident that any of their vessels could safely take us anywhere we pointed the bow.

[Manateeman]

The OP states they want the following: 1, a blue water boat, 2, solid 3, 10 to 15 years general cruising plus 2 x around the world. Not a lot of offshore experience.
Lastly, and most importantly, not a solo sailor or a couple but a FAMILY.
Yes, we are the voice of gloom and doom to some but the advice of a prudent mariner to others. What did I advise.
1. Go see what you are up against in a real storm.
2. Get professional training...Yachtmaster, plus.
3. Go to the Netherlands and get an good slightly used aluminum yacht with the expert advice of boatbuilders and a trusted surveyor.
So this is BAD advice?
We feel the advice ...lots of people circumnavigate in oem boats...does not take into account their lack of offshore experience and inexperience in vessel ownership, both financially and in practice...especially at sea!
Medical emergency, person overboard, flooding, FIRE?
You don’t need to sail to high latitudes to see horrific seas. Weather forecasts are not perfect, you can’t outrun every storm. Things break. People break. Then they ask others to risk their lives to save them and their children. This happens with increasing frequency as offshore voyages begin to appear to be within the reach of anyone with a fistful of money, a dream and little seatime.
The manatee crew will continue to criticize poor boatbuilding, Ken, Bikini Barbie and the cat videos, advice as to the perfect 20’ boat to see ice bears from...our usual gloom and doom. They are old, slow, funny looking but they never want to pull a child’s body from the cold sea... never again.
Captain Mark

[Ded reckoner]

If you're buying any boat that's not new, you will be spending a lot of money, either along and along or all at once, either refitting it or upgrading it. Your budget needs to reflect this. Since your budget is limited, perhaps a slightly smaller boat would suit. So, I second the motion to consider an Amel Super Maramu. We had friends who had one and they loved it. Same for a couple who circumnavigated in their Island Packet 52. And, I would recommend you consider the Nauticat 52. And, in your size range, we know folks who love their Passport 54's.

[LittleWing77]

Welcome aboard, Eneas!

Originally Posted by aqfishing

Get a Catamaran…Sail with the wind! Space and comfort will keep everyone happy!

Read both Dockhead's and Manateeman's posts above carefully. Manateeman is a professional boatbuilder and a high-latitudes sailor, so if you include that in the equation, you can see why his perspective falls emphatically on the side of exceptionally seaworthy boats AND crew! Dockhead has just been sailing simply FOR-evah, everywhere. In fact, how is Dockhead still alive and still sailing? (Note to Self: Must look into that. I want what he's got.)

Consider both perspectives and if you land somewhere in the middle, that should be just about right.

I would second the gents' counsel of absolutely taking the RYA Yachtmaster (and all courses up to) - both you AND your wife. I am a YM myself and can vouch that the RYA training was worth every penny.

In addition, here are a couple of useful threads as resources:

First Cat for Family New to Cruising
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ng-249621.html

Leopard 46 Lost in French Polynesia - Stunning Rescue Pictures (read the family's blog, too, it really was amazing - and will be instructive)
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...es-188429.html

Fair winds and good luck!
LittleWing77

Oh, and I almost forgot... while I'm not a fan of catamarans, they do have more room for a family, so if you choose to go that way, caveat emptor (!):

Broken Lagoon (Lagoon is a brand of cats)
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...on-250820.html

[Adelie]

Welcome.

How many people? What ages?
What is your proposed cruising locations, Round the World, Across the Atlantic & back, high latitudes,????
Cat or monohull preference?

I would suggest updating your profile with your general location and your boat make & model or “Looking” in the "Boat" category. This info shows up under your UserName in every post in the web view. Many questions are boat and/or location dependent and having these tidbits under your UserName saves answering those questions repeatedly. If you need help setting up your profile then click on this link: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3308797

I would happily help more if the link above is not enough.

[Curmugeon]

First I would find a nice seaworthy 35-40 foot boat and plan to spend the next couple of years learning to sail and maintain it. Then decide what factors you need in a new boat.

[Curmugeon]

I forgot to add that I spent 25 years sailing around the world including the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans (across twice) on a 36 footer. If I was starting again I would certainly check out good seaworthy cats.

[sailing_gal]

There are a lot of discussions here about cats vs monohulls. I'm a monohull fan. Take a look at the Island Packet 485. There are several for sale in Europe listed on Yachtworld, they are 52 feet, extremely sea kindly, and tough, good ocean sailors. They are built for cruising with plenty of storage and space.

[smj]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Welcome aboard, Eneas!

Read both Dockhead's and Manateeman's posts above carefully. Manateeman is a professional boatbuilder and a high-latitudes sailor, so if you include that in the equation, you can see why his perspective falls emphatically on the side of exceptionally seaworthy boats AND crew! Dockhead has just been sailing simply FOR-evah, everywhere. In fact, how is Dockhead still alive and still sailing? (Note to Self: Must look into that. I want what he's got.)

Consider both perspectives and if you land somewhere in the middle, that should be just about right.

I would second the gents' counsel of absolutely taking the RYA Yachtmaster (and all courses up to) - both you AND your wife. I am a YM myself and can vouch that the RYA training was worth every penny.

In addition, here are a couple of useful threads as resources:

First Cat for Family New to Cruising
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ng-249621.html

Leopard 46 Lost in French Polynesia - Stunning Rescue Pictures (read the family's blog, too, it really was amazing - and will be instructive)
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...es-188429.html

Fair winds and good luck!
LittleWing77

Oh, and I almost forgot... while I'm not a fan of catamarans, they do have more room for a family, so if you choose to go that way, caveat emptor (!):

Broken Lagoon (Lagoon is a brand of cats)
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...on-250820.html

You forgot to include the threads about monohulls keels falling of and monohulls lost at sea.

[goboatingnow]

Just buy an Amel