What Sailboat cabin doesn't feel like a hole?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by ShalomOrchard

To all the people giving recommendations for 30+ & 40+ ft sailboats. I appreciate your suggestions, they are fun to drool over, but there is no chance I would ever be able to own one.

My other two realistic criteria are: trailerable or ramp launchable, to be able to go different places; can I sail it by myself?; would I ever be able to afford it? So I'm kind of limited to older, smaller boats. I really like classic styling too, so the swoopy strip windows on new boat turn me off. Ditto with catamarans, how small of a catamaran can you have that has a significant platform cabin? (serious question)

So far, I really like the Pearson 300. It's a relatively small boat, with a small saloon with a couple of decent windows. The dinette is slightly elevated so you can look out while sitting down. The helm is still in the stern cockpit, so it's not really a pilothouse.

"It is how mono sailboats are. ..."

I get that that design philosophy is very common. But there are a few outliers. The Pearson 300 I mention is I think an excellent exception; there are others. It's a pretty traditional boat, being older, but by raising the dinette a bit, it fits the bill. It's not a Bluewater boat, but that's not the top criteria for me.

"Go in the cockpit if you want to look around..."

That's a good solution for most people. But if you plan on spending a lot of time on the boat, there are times when the cockpit is too hot, too cold, too windy, too bright, too dark,
etc. Too much sun isn't good for your skin, or your eyes. I personally would like the option of a slightly more sheltered space, especially up here in Maine. The pilothouse seems like a good option. Maybe the pop top would do...

Re hull windows

The new open cabin layouts for small boats are very interesting! Small 4x8 Hull windows don't fulfill the need to be able to look around. They are better then nothing I suppose, but not much. If I have the crane of head around to look out, I might as well stand up and look out the traditional porthole.

Re MacGregor 25

That sounds promising, I'll look that up! How well does the pop top actually work in practice?

Welcome aboard Jim!
Look to the old Columbia 24, 26 and 29, all at 8 foot beam. They are all boats I'd consider blue water capable, but they are great as starter boats too. With the rudder attached to the keel they aren't as nimble as those with spade rudders but they perform well. My first real boat was the 24 and I sailed it all around the local islands and it was great. I now have the 29 and love it. They all sail well for their vintage and they were built tough, many layers of hand laid up glass with encapsulated keels. The 24 and 26 can reasonably be towed by a decent pick-up but you will need a tongue extension to launch from a ramp. I have seen it done, no problem. The 29 is about 8000 lbs so will need a 3 axle trailer and a heftier truck IMO. I have seen them towed on a stout 2 axle trailer too. Given what you are saying I think a 26' mk1 in good shape would be a good choice. Here is one that a fisherman survived on for 4 months so I guess that means it's a bluewater yacht!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Van_Pham

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ture32970.html
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ture32351.html
https://www.cruisersforum.com/galler...ageuser=155384
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/columbia-26

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by ShalomOrchard

To all the people giving recommendations for 30+ & 40+ ft sailboats. I appreciate your suggestions, they are fun to drool over, but there is no chance I would ever be able to own one.

My other two realistic criteria are: trailerable or ramp launchable, to be able to go different places; can I sail it by myself?; would I ever be able to afford it? So I'm kind of limited to older, smaller boats. I really like classic styling too, so the swoopy strip windows on new boat turn me off. Ditto with catamarans, how small of a catamaran can you have that has a significant platform cabin? (serious question)

So far, I really like the Pearson 300. It's a relatively small boat, with a small saloon with a couple of decent windows. The dinette is slightly elevated so you can look out while sitting down. The helm is still in the stern cockpit, so it's not really a pilothouse.

"It is how mono sailboats are. ..."

I get that that design philosophy is very common. But there are a few outliers. The Pearson 300 I mention is I think an excellent exception; there are others. It's a pretty traditional boat, being older, but by raising the dinette a bit, it fits the bill. It's not a Bluewater boat, but that's not the top criteria for me.

"Go in the cockpit if you want to look around..."

That's a good solution for most people. But if you plan on spending a lot of time on the boat, there are times when the cockpit is too hot, too cold, too windy, too bright, too dark,
etc. Too much sun isn't good for your skin, or your eyes. I personally would like the option of a slightly more sheltered space, especially up here in Maine. The pilothouse seems like a good option. Maybe the pop top would do...

Re hull windows

The new open cabin layouts for small boats are very interesting! Small 4x8 Hull windows don't fulfill the need to be able to look around. They are better then nothing I suppose, but not much. If I have the crane of head around to look out, I might as well stand up and look out the traditional porthole.

Re MacGregor 25

That sounds promising, I'll look that up! How well does the pop top actually work in practice?

Welcome abaord! In fairness you really didn't provide any parameters other than Sailboats cabins are dark, what ones aren't? That's going to elicit a very big range. Now that you have narrowed things down the challenge is going to be even greater! But you have conflicting criteria. You really like the Pearson 30 but you also said that the boat must be trailerable. Realistically that limits you to about 26ft not 30. Standing headroom is a challenge at 26ft (without the boat being really unsightly) let alone a bright airy interior. Realisitically the best bet at with these limits os going to be a Late model Macgregor 26 ( or whatever they are called these days)

[NorthCoastJoe]

The Macgregor 25 pop top is great if you have a cover for it. The pop top cover makes it an indoor space. I have a Macgregor 25, cast iron swing keel boat that we use as our lake boat. It is a great boat on a budget, costs you nothing if you can park your trailer at home when not on the water. Plenty of interior space too.
It is easy to set up from the trailer and is fun to sail. With a mast raising pole attached to the trailer we have the mast up quickly. If you are interested I may be selling it soon. I have 3 sailboats now and need to reduce that number.

[NorthCoastJoe]

Someone mentioned the Pearson 30, It is 9000 pounds and 5 foot draft. I love sailing it but it needs to live in the water, not a trailer boat.

[Captain Puget]

+1 for pilot house configuration. Both for nasty weather and sun protection.

[Goodxcharly]

Check out the motor sailors! Sounds like what you are looking for.

[gulfislandfred]

My Sirius 21 trailer sailor has a pop top, that can be raised to give headroom for almost anyone. I'm 5'6", so I made my plywood sides to give 5'11" in the 'wheelhouse'.

The windows give lots of light. There's a little wood stove in the cabin. With the autohelm, I can cruise in comfort in the winter, in the Gulf Islands.
(although I usually bring her home on the trailer and fly to Mexico)

[gulfislandfred]

I tried to paste in a photo of the boat. Can I copy and paste here?

[singlespeed]

Now you know one reason why people buy catamarans. Not only for the wide spacious salon, but also for the wide spacious cockpits.

[OneBoatman]

In the 70s there were at least a few boats under 25 ft with "pop tops" essentially mini-cruisers with the ability to add headroom and light to a weekender with less than standing headroom. These boats were versatile and fun with swing keels and also trailerable. Examples: Venture 17 and maybe also their 21. A pilothouse or similar concept the deck salon designs bring light and headroom essentially opening up the galley but these are typically not small or cheap. The deck salon designs of today are beamier and thus less claustrophobic. Aesthetically speaking these boats aren't real pretty, they tend to make more leeway under sail also present more windage on the hook so you would probably also want an oversize anchor. I do find the old school pilothouse boats attractive and having visibility directly forward on long passages giving the benefit of not having to be in the elements. I've been sailing a long time and don't feel the need to look out once I'm below, maybe it's learned behavior because as you say it's not common in many sailboats but I can always go on deck. Another option is to have a dodger made with a full enclosure and you can add that to just about any boat.

[Wolfhound]

https://www.boats.com/reviews/pearso...d-boat-review/

A Triton 28 is an obvious, and seakindly, choice.

Wolfhound

[gulfislandfred]

A full enclosure is a great thing here in BC. It does add windage, and probably affects sailing performance, but apparently not enough to deter most people who cruise the Salish Sea. Almost everyone who can afford an enclosed cockpit has one. I've never heard of needing to have a bigger anchor. I think we tend toward bigger anchors around here, anyway. We have tide, current, and strong winds in the night.


People tend to sit in the enclosure rather than below, and enjoy the light and air. Many boats here, if they have forced air heat, have a heater vent in the enclosed cockpit.



I like a full length hard top, with a rigid windshield, and canvas side and back curtains. Cost for the hard top is similar or less than canvas. It's easier (at least for me) to build your own hard top, and it will last longer than canvas. The hard top can support solar panels, or a boom rest, depending on boom length.

Whether to make the hard top strong enough to walk on is a boat compromise question. We don't walk on our canvas enclosures.
Many shorter dodgers don't protect the helm.

[Junk Viking]

Reinke designed boats are all deck saloon.
The Reinke S(uper)10 may be 34´, but can be found at reasonable prices.
They are mostly home build (steel hull) or at least the interior is (aluminium hull).
They usually have raised settee, and therefore almost 360 view seated.

Prices vary a lot, depending how nice the wood work and equipment is.
A quick search showed a number of 10M and S10's at €40-50k, but I payed 1/3 of that with careful searching.
Find one of these ocean capable boats stranded in an odd place, and you'll get a real bargain.

Reinke homepage

[lo2jones]

Bad news: you are in a whole. Good news: you can take the hole anyplace in the world where there is enough water.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by ShalomOrchard

After much searching, it may be the boat I saw was a Pearson 300, although I thought it was shorter.
These are quite old boats, and quite rare; only a couple hundred were produced. The only cabin pictures
I could find seem to be atypical. There seems to be two different types of windows in the Pearson Brochure.

Yes, it looks like a motorsailer; so sue me. Sitting at the dinette and being able to look out; I would love
that. I do think it looks better then most of the similar cabins; even the ones with larger windows are too deep
to be able to sit and look out.

But it doesn't look like it's trailer-able ramp-launchable with a full keel...

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/pearson-300

https://www.pearsonyachts.org/models/pearson-300.html

I love the feel of a Raised Saloon, or "Deck Saloon" type. There are various models around and of course newer ones that are really nice. A bit unusual in a small trailer sailor though if that's what you want.

maybe do a search for that term and see what pops up.

I almost bought an old... Islander? 32-33 Deck Saloon type which had a great feel in the upper part. Table, fridge, an inside steering and chart table were all up there.

Friends had a Pan Asiatic (?) 43 with a great upper space.

In a trailerable small boat, you might as well just spend time in the cockpit. Add a good bimini with side curtains and you're there! Even people with large boats do that a lot.