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**JPA Cate** · 30-09-2020, 16:25

If you are considering a liner-built boat, take a look here: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ir-164093.html

The link is to a thread where minaret, a highly skilled boat worker, extraordinaire, accomplished a beautiful repair to a damaged Waukiez.

To the OP, one way of comparing your boats there would be to look at them on sailboatdata.com, and make notes.

When you see a boat with a good reputation for a bargain basement price, you really need to ask yourself what could be wrong with it for the price to be so low. Liner-built boats that have suffered groundings (common occurrence) can have problems like in that link I gave you. I believe the costs are covered in that thread, though it IS a while, back, now.

In general, beware teak decks due to reputation for leaks, and very hot in tropical areas.

As to size of the boat, it should be big enough so that your good lady wife wants to come along, and not miss the wonders of the open ocean.

Ann

**Jim Cate** · 30-09-2020, 17:07

Here's a reference to a small but practical ocean crossing cruising boat. Your wife might find it cramped...

https://www.latitude38.com/lectronic...d-out-the-gate

I've never understood the drive to sail the smallest boat across even a pond, let alone an ocean or around the world... yet it has driven folks to incredible adventures... and a few deaths/failures/disappointments.

On a serious note, we've met a family of four in a Vancouver 27 who had made it from Cali to the Marquesas... and they seemed to be having a good time. And plenty of couples on ~24 footers. This does not mean that YOU would be equally content, for tolerance of discomfort varies wildly between individuals. As far as safety at sea, enough smaller yachts have made it to dispel claims that they are inadequate, but it is indisputable that in really serious weather, smaller means greater probability of capsize with attendant damage. This is a factor that only you can evaluate in making your choices.

Good luck... my bet is that you end up with something in the low 30s range.

Jim

ctsrj1 · 30-09-2020, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

If you are considering a liner-built boat, take a look here: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ir-164093.html

The link is to a thread where minaret (a highly skilled boat worker, extraordinaire, accomplished a beautiful repair to a damaged Waukiez.

To the OP, one way of comparing your boats there would be to look at them on sailboatdata.com, and make notes.

When you see a boat with a good reputation for a bargain basement price, you really need to ask yourself what could be wrong with it for the price to be so low. Liner-built boats that have suffered groundings (common occurrence) can have problems like in that link I gave you. I believe the costs are covered in that thread, though it IS a while, back, now.

In general, beware teak decks due to reputation for leaks, and very hot in tropical areas.

As to size of the boat, it should be big enough so that your good lady wife wants to come along, and not miss the wonders of the open ocean.

Ann

All good points and thank you for the sailboatdata.com link. I need to research boat construction a little more.

LittleWing77 · 30-09-2020, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctsrj1

<Sigh> SRJ, have you ever single-handed? Offshore? For many days?

These are all TOO BIG.

And Island Packets... there are a bunch available. Everywhere.

Ask yourself - why is that?

The reason is nothing dark or anything... they just are boats that are more suited to living aboard, not actually *sailing*.

Please establish for yourself if you would like a good SAILING boat or a good LIVEABOARD boat. They represent two different configurations that you'll need to suss out for yourself.

LittleWing77

ctsrj1 · 30-09-2020, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

<Sigh> SRJ, have you ever single-handed? Offshore? For many days?

These are all TOO BIG.

And Island Packets... there are a bunch available. Everywhere.

Ask yourself - why is that?

The reason is nothing dark or anything... they just are boats that are more suited to living aboard, not actually *sailing*.

Please establish for yourself if you would like a good SAILING boat or a good LIVEABOARD boat. They represent two different configurations that you'll need to suss out for yourself.

LittleWing77

I have limited single handed experience which is why I am looking for input from knowledgeable people like you. I have single handed, but only for day trips.

My preference is a good sailing boat.

Manateeman · 30-09-2020, 18:38

A forum is an open discussion.
The question the OP asked, I answered. The smallest vessel should be zero feet. I think I fully explained why I feel this way. The responses did not address my points...they just turned into a personal attack. An ad hominem fallacy.

So let me review because someone might like to actually address them.
A solo sailor crossing an ocean cannot physically maintain a proper lookout when sleeping.
I’ll use the USCG standard.
A solo sailors vessel poses a risk of collision to other vessels when sleeping.
Solo sailors cannot comply with the requirement to avoid collision even if the privileged vessel when sleeping.
The most egregious is next.
Solo sailors cannot observe visual distress signals from other vessels when sleeping.
This point is rarely discussed as if it did not exist.
My vessel is sinking, or on fire. My EPIRB is out of reach and no response to my vhf calls. I see a vessel just sail on by while I shoot off flares because it’s solo.
Then you have the Ken and the cat boat blogger. He’s solo so no Barbie.
I got the smallest boat out here but OH NO mister bill (remember the Gumby guy)..my boat rolled over and now I’ll set off my epirb cause I need help to sail.
So now solo asks someone to risk their life to save his sorry butt.

It’s so much easier to attack the messenger than to discuss the message.
So much easier and so childish. Because you might learn something, I always wish well to all. Sincerely...7Happy trails to you

Captain Mark and his wide awake watch keeping manatees.

Manatees actually sleep on the bottom for about 15 minutes, then surface, breathe, then submerge and return to sleep.
See...you did learn something new about manatees.

Happy trails!

**JPA Cate** · 30-09-2020, 20:07

The objections to singlehanding have been written about to great length here on CF. The fact is that nations generally turn a blind eye to it, and only one or two I know of enthusiastically embraces it. OP, if you're interested in the ramifications of single handing, use the CF Custom Google Search, and take a look at what has been written recently on the subject.

Our OP is someone who used to have a 40 ft. Beneteau. I would imagine that he will like a boat which sails well, and he said that was his preference. So, if we can confine our discussion to the boats he has shown us attracted his attention, we can best help him.

I am not a fan of liner-built boats, because the liners don't allow you to have access to the outer bits from inside, and you sometimes need to through bolt things; as well as the problems they have been shown to have due to groundings.

So, in fiberglass boats, he's going to want to look at older boats, prior to liner-built ones. It may lower purchase costs, but increase the investments in upgrades, but give a solid hull.

There's a tendency to want to get the "perfectly equipped" boat, but in fact, what you need, rather than everything you might want, is the more practical way to go--it will save both time and money.

Ann

**newhaul** · 30-09-2020, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

<Sigh> SRJ, have you ever single-handed? Offshore? For many days?

These are all TOO BIG.

And Island Packets... there are a bunch available. Everywhere.

Ask yourself - why is that?

The reason is nothing dark or anything... they just are boats that are more suited to living aboard, not actually *sailing*.

Please establish for yourself if you would like a good SAILING boat or a good LIVEABOARD boat. They represent two different configurations that you'll need to suss out for yourself.

LittleWing77

So i suppose my s42 was to bug to single hand? I have done it many times for many days . You sleep in 15 minute naps on deck .

**newhaul** · 30-09-2020, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manateeman

A forum is an open discussion.
The question the OP asked, I answered. The smallest vessel should be zero feet. I think I fully explained why I feel this way. The responses did not address my points...they just turned into a personal attack. An ad hominem fallacy.

So let me review because someone might like to actually address them.
A solo sailor crossing an ocean cannot physically maintain a proper lookout when sleeping.
I’ll use the USCG standard.
A solo sailors vessel poses a risk of collision to other vessels when sleeping.
Solo sailors cannot comply with the requirement to avoid collision even if the privileged vessel when sleeping.
The most egregious is next.
Solo sailors cannot observe visual distress signals from other vessels when sleeping.
This point is rarely discussed as if it did not exist.
My vessel is sinking, or on fire. My EPIRB is out of reach and no response to my vhf calls. I see a vessel just sail on by while I shoot off flares because it’s solo.
Then you have the Ken and the cat boat blogger. He’s solo so no Barbie.
I got the smallest boat out here but OH NO mister bill (remember the Gumby guy)..my boat rolled over and now I’ll set off my epirb cause I need help to sail.
So now solo asks someone to risk their life to save his sorry butt.

It’s so much easier to attack the messenger than to discuss the message.
So much easier and so childish. Because you might learn something, I always wish well to all. Sincerely...7Happy trails to you

Captain Mark and his wide awake watch keeping manatees.

Manatees actually sleep on the bottom for about 15 minutes, then surface, breathe, then submerge and return to sleep.
See...you did learn something new about manatees.

Happy trails!

If you dont have anything constructive to say about the rigors of singlehanding a sailboat across an ocean then please refrain from posting .

Byw i have done many thousands of miles solo . Short naps for 2 weeks takes a toll but the solitude is well worth it . Becides when more than 500 miles offshore and not in shipping lanes you rarely see anyone .

Manateeman · 30-09-2020, 21:21

Only comments in support of solo sailing are allowed. WOW.
Im happy I have crew who know the common sense reasons for maintain a sharp lookout and that they are rested and fully alert.
I certainly appreciate the fact that world wide, commercial jets have a pilot and copilot so nobody nods off and that they observe required sleep/ rest rules before takeoff.
Interesting that truckers are required to take rest stops and maintain logs to prove to police they are rested enough to drive.
Lastly, the USCG requires commercial vessels have two captains for voyages longer than 12 hours. Sorry, USCG. What do you know about amateur sailing.
All these rules are just silly because at sea, cat naps are sufficient and keep you alert enough to avoid collisions and to respond to vessels in distress.
These strangely similar rules must be based on fake science.
It’s funny, commercial aircraft, passenger vessels and even trucks regulate exactly how small you can be. Not a lot of legroom on planes, you can’t overload vessels and truck cargo is weight, length and width restricted. But...
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his gratefully USCG protected manatees

Yihang · 01-10-2020, 01:40

I was obsessed with small heavy pocket cruisers until I realised you are just paying for the Charm and 'story'. The lack of speed and carrying ability is just not practical if you want to cross the pacific. Nothing simple about them, just the same systems packed into a cramped package.

Nothing wrong with a simple Late 90s Catalina 36 MKII. Great Interior, nice sugar scoop stern, all very practical and well thought out. There's a reason why they made these for over 20 years. Well built, easy to sail. Toyota Camry of the sea. They are everywhere.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...-mkii-3695449/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...-mkii-3707529/

chrisr · 01-10-2020, 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yihang

I was obsessed with small heavy pocket cruisers until I realised you are just paying for the Charm and 'story'. The lack of speed and carrying ability is just not practical if you want to cross the pacific. Nothing simple about them, just the same systems packed into a cramped package.

Nothing wrong with a simple Late 90s Catalina 36 MKII. Great Interior, nice sugar scoop stern, all very practical and well thought out. There's a reason why they made these for over 20 years. Well built, easy to sail. Toyota Camry of the sea. They are everywhere.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...-mkii-3695449/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...-mkii-3707529/

"Toyota Camry of the sea"...haha...very nicely put !

but you are spot on abt this and abt the "small heavy pocket cruisers"

cheers,

Benz · 01-10-2020, 03:03

@manateeman
Can you provide a citation for this statement?
"Lastly, the USCG requires commercial vessels have two captains for voyages longer than 12 hours."
I was not aware that commercial vessels ever had more than one captain. On whom would the responsibility fall?

LittleWing77 · 01-10-2020, 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctsrj1

My preference is a good sailing boat.

Okay, super. That helps.

Then stay away from Island Packets. They sail like pigs.

Now ask yourself, when you were single-handing, what sized boat were you comfortable sailing by yourself? (Do not complicate this question by adding your wife and her toiletry/shower needs into the equation).

There are two singlehanders who regularly contribute to this Forum - one has given you his perspective on this thread and he's in a 29' boat. The other I know is Orion Jim out of Noank (not close to Westport, if that's where you are) and OJ has a Cape Dory 31'.

My own comfort zone is 28-32'.

LittleWing77

Whoops! And Thomm225! Almost forgatcha! Tom has a absolutely lovely Bristol 27' that he avidly single-hands and regularly provides us with cool videos of his adventures.

thomm225 · 01-10-2020, 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manateeman

A forum is an open discussion.
The question the OP asked, I answered. The smallest vessel should be zero feet. I think I fully explained why I feel this way. The responses did not address my points...they just turned into a personal attack. An ad hominem fallacy.

So let me review because someone might like to actually address them.
A solo sailor crossing an ocean cannot physically maintain a proper lookout when sleeping.
I’ll use the USCG standard.
A solo sailors vessel poses a risk of collision to other vessels when sleeping.
Solo sailors cannot comply with the requirement to avoid collision even if the privileged vessel when sleeping.
The most egregious is next.
Solo sailors cannot observe visual distress signals from other vessels when sleeping.
This point is rarely discussed as if it did not exist.
My vessel is sinking, or on fire. My EPIRB is out of reach and no response to my vhf calls. I see a vessel just sail on by while I shoot off flares because it’s solo.
Then you have the Ken and the cat boat blogger. He’s solo so no Barbie.
I got the smallest boat out here but OH NO mister bill (remember the Gumby guy)..my boat rolled over and now I’ll set off my epirb cause I need help to sail.
So now solo asks someone to risk their life to save his sorry butt.

It’s so much easier to attack the messenger than to discuss the message.
So much easier and so childish. Because you might learn something, I always wish well to all. Sincerely...7Happy trails to you

Captain Mark and his wide awake watch keeping manatees.

Manatees actually sleep on the bottom for about 15 minutes, then surface, breathe, then submerge and return to sleep.
See...you did learn something new about manatees.

Happy trails!

These guys (and gals) didn't get the memo:

Solo Circumnavigator list.....

LIST OF SOLO CIRCUMNAVIGATORS

Nor did teenage solo circumnavigator Laura Dekker: