What’s the smallest boat....

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Yihang

I was obsessed with small heavy pocket cruisers until I realised you are just paying for the Charm and 'story'. The lack of speed and carrying ability is just not practical if you want to cross the pacific. Nothing simple about them, just the same systems packed into a cramped package.

Nothing wrong with a simple Late 90s Catalina 36 MKII. Great Interior, nice sugar scoop stern, all very practical and well thought out. There's a reason why they made these for over 20 years. Well built, easy to sail. Toyota Camry of the sea. They are everywhere.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...-mkii-3695449/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...-mkii-3707529/

This is a thoughtful reply, Yihang! Well done.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Catalinas for offshore as they're a bit underbuilt, but - as many have said on this Forum, you can find an example of any brand of boat which has crossed an ocean.

It's really about sailing lots of boats and narrowing down what you *need* as opposed to what looks nice or has some new bell or whistle... anyway, that's just my approach to it.

Fair winds,
LittleWing77

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

A forum is an open discussion.

Then why do you find it necessary to bully everyone on this Forum?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Benz

@manateeman
Can you provide a citation for this statement?
"Lastly, the USCG requires commercial vessels have two captains for voyages longer than 12 hours."
I was not aware that commercial vessels ever had more than one captain. On whom would the responsibility fall?

And while you are about it, explain how one can reasonably compare flying a 747 with 400 POB at 600 knots to sailing a small yacht at 6 knots with one POB?

Or driving a 50 tonne semi at 60 knots, passing within a few feet of vehicles going opposite direction, all day long?

Surely the risk factor is a bit different!

I find your examples unconvincing to say the least.

Jim

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Here's a reference to a small but practical ocean crossing cruising boat. Your wife might find it cramped...

https://www.latitude38.com/lectronic...d-out-the-gate

I've never understood the drive to sail the smallest boat across even a pond, let alone an ocean or around the world... yet it has driven folks to incredible adventures... and a few deaths/failures/disappointments.


(...)

He did take off despite it getting late and despite the boat having some design flaws!


Brave young man.


He has the better tracker (Iridium based) so nice to see his progress and read his daily news. Yann on Baluchon has a Spot ;-( so we could not see his progress out of FP, but now approaching Australia he is again under the Spot satellite. We can see two recent pings on his tracker.


Yrvind used a YB too.



Brave young men.


Most interestingly, The small red boat is an in-between Yrvinds boat and Yann's. Imho - too heavy too slow (Yrving admitted his boat is). Heavy and slow (and small) is known to sail just as well as a stray ODAS buoy. The young guy also seems to suffer from boat movement alot. Something we often discuss here at CF. Small, to be comfortable, must be flat. A Zodiac inflatable is one.



Super exciting voyages and I think a lesson for all those who say 'one cannot'.


Cheers,
b.

[ctsrj1]

Back to topic at hand.....buying a boat is a tough decision for the person who has owned limited boats. I am trying to identify boats in my immediate area (CT) so I can easily take look at them. I also cannot afford to make a mistake. Whether I cross oceans or not, I want the safest boat possible that will be the least likely need of major repair. Safety is most important and liveaboard comfort is 2nd. Structural, sail ability, inverted stability, etc are all important.

[thomm225]

This boat might still be for sale. (I don't remember your price range)

The thing about sailboatlistings is folks have a hard time deleting their posts so they just leave them up. (sometimes deleting some of the info)

It's best to check when they were posted at the bottom of the ad when shopping around on that site.

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/82392

Here's a good boat but old listing.

https://bluewaterboats.org/bristol-24

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/63927

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by ctsrj1

(...)



I want the safest boat possible that will be the least likely need of major repair. Safety is most important and liveaboard comfort is 2nd. Structural, sail ability, inverted stability, etc are all important.

Are you going to spend much time inverted?



Catamarans are very stable when inverted, though.



;-)


Look. What I am saying is that sailing is not one of the things that are done for safety. Armchair, felt slippers, that's safety. Sailing is a risky business, a business of 'chances'.



Small boats are not about safety. Other points you want, yes, are attainable. Structural integrity, sailability, repairability, are all worth chasing. If you elect a boat that lacks any of the three, you cannot post-fit such things.


Now safety. How do we define it. Safety is ability to sail fast. Safety is ability to stay put, when sailing is no longer an option.


Sometimes apparent safety takes designers away from what a sailing boat is. Leading them to small, deep, heavy designs that are 'bomb proof' and have amazing inverted stability (=minimal). But such boats sail like (-it) and so they are not safe - they will spend months on a passage done in weeks by lighter, faster, craft.


Blah blah blah.


As long as you do not mix up strong with heavy, I think you are fine.


Sail safe, wear the mask (snorkeling one, if in a small boat!).


Take care, happy chasing.


barnakiel

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by ctsrj1

Back to topic at hand.....buying a boat is a tough decision for the person who has owned limited boats. I am trying to identify boats in my immediate area (CT) so I can easily take look at them. I also cannot afford to make a mistake. Whether I cross oceans or not, I want the safest boat possible that will be the least likely need of major repair. Safety is most important and liveaboard comfort is 2nd. Structural, sail ability, inverted stability, etc are all important.

This one is really worth a look and not to far from you and well priced.

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/61615

If it is still available .

[ctsrj1]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Are you going to spend much time inverted

I hope not, that’s why it is important. From what I have read, some designs reduce the likelihood of righting themselves. Thank you for the post though. The strong vs heavy distinction is a good one.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by ctsrj1

Back to topic at hand.....buying a boat is a tough decision for the person who has owned limited boats. I am trying to identify boats in my immediate area (CT) so I can easily take look at them. I also cannot afford to make a mistake. Whether I cross oceans or not, I want the safest boat possible that will be the least likely need of major repair. Safety is most important and liveaboard comfort is 2nd. Structural, sail ability, inverted stability, etc are all important.

You can certainly look at boats in your area to get an idea of what is what but if you are looking for a boat for extended cruising (you mentioned west from the PC) you need to be much more flexible and willing to travel. We are from the Toronto area and if we had limited our boat shopping to Lake Ontario (bigger than CT) it would not have gone well. We looked at boats from Maine to the south end of the Chesapeake and finally found the one we wanted in RI.

I now have a Catalina 36 Mk II after circumnavigation on a Bristol 45.5 which is a much bigger and somewhat different version of the Wauquiez on your list. The Bristol was a delight crossing the Indian Ocean to South Africa with winds over 25 knots for three weeks, and over 40 at times. Don't think I would want to do that trip with the Catalina, as nice a boat as it is. The Catalina would be fine for trips to Bermuda, the Bahamas, and eastern Caribbean. You could make it work across the Pacific to Oz and up the Red Sea. You have to get a real sense of what your objectives are and work from there.

If you find a design you like but the particular boat is not good in some respect, the Wauquiez is a good example, be prepared to look for other examples of the same boat. Here is one in the Caribbean with a cockpit companionway and no teak deck and cheap. Not hard to bring it home. Hire a cabin and act as crew and learn a lot.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...od-38-3508944/

[Manateeman]

Greetings all. Posters have asked me for references with regard to the 12 hour rule. A simple google search will probably get you better results but I think it began with a USGG Policy letter : CG-MOC Policy Letter 00-04.
With regard to single handed. I was informed that 2 nations embraced it. The two SH races were both recreation events and no official approvals were recorded at the IMO who might have just turned a blind eye legally. The IMO position remains simple...any citizen of a signing nation is bound by the rules in international waters. With reference to admiralty cases I was quickly pointed to the Jessica Watson ruling. In addition to the USCG, the RYA does not condone single handed sailing. I did not write the legislation. It is entirely a personal choice to comply with these laws or not. I honestly thought the first post was tongue in cheek...
similar to the post of the man with no money and no experience who wants to live the adventures in paradise life...something posted half in jest.
I remember well sitting with my father, two other admiralty attorneys and a professor of law from Tulane just after Tanya Abe made her first crossing. The discussion centered on what legal defense and prosecution arguments would follow if she had died in the attempt and how would the courts treat her father who gave her the boat and encouraged her voyage. One voyage, several perspectives. I believe a thread begun by Brown Bear asked about the smallest boat and I have read lengthy threads on single handed sailing. Could someone please list them for everyone. Thank you in advance. So till then...
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his flunked maritime law manatees

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Greetings all. Posters have asked me for references with regard to the 12 hour rule. A simple google search will probably get you better results but I think it began with a USGG Policy letter : CG-MOC Policy Letter 00-04.
With regard to single handed. I was informed that 2 nations embraced it. The two SH races were both recreation events and no official approvals were recorded at the IMO who might have just turned a blind eye legally. The IMO position remains simple...any citizen of a signing nation is bound by the rules in international waters. With reference to admiralty cases I was quickly pointed to the Jessica Watson ruling. In addition to the USCG, the RYA does not condone single handed sailing. I did not write the legislation. It is entirely a personal choice to comply with these laws or not. I honestly thought the first post was tongue in cheek...
similar to the post of the man with no money and no experience who wants to live the adventures in paradise life...something posted half in jest.
I remember well sitting with my father, two other admiralty attorneys and a professor of law from Tulane just after Tanya Abe made her first crossing. The discussion centered on what legal defense and prosecution arguments would follow if she had died in the attempt and how would the courts treat her father who gave her the boat and encouraged her voyage. One voyage, several perspectives. I believe a thread begun by Brown Bear asked about the smallest boat and I have read lengthy threads on single handed sailing. Could someone please list them for everyone. Thank you in advance. So till then...
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his flunked maritime law manatees

Just do what you suggested and use the search function . This forum has a really good one .

I still don't see any actual USCG regulations that forbid solo sailing .

BTW USCG regulations don't care about any boats beyond the 12 mile limit of us sovereign teretorial waters.

Also COLREGS state in rule #5 that all vessels should ( not must or are required to) keep a proper lookout and that includes use of all available electronic means.
So an aisle A would actually satisfy the recommendations . Also an AIS B would even tell the rest of the shipping that you are there as well as your course and speed .

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by ctsrj1

Back to topic at hand.....buying a boat is a tough decision for the person who has owned limited boats. I am trying to identify boats in my immediate area (CT) so I can easily take look at them. I also cannot afford to make a mistake. Whether I cross oceans or not, I want the safest boat possible that will be the least likely need of major repair. Safety is most important and liveaboard comfort is 2nd. Structural, sail ability, inverted stability, etc are all important.

Yeah, I'm leaning toward that Tartan 37 given this is your only list, where you are headed, and your needs. And I am quite partial to S&S designs
I like the Ron Holland for the fun factor though! And the Cal 39 too, but you MAY need shoal draft somewhere. I knew a guy who used to singlehand his Cal 40 (very much like the Cal 39) and another with a Valiant 40. Singlehanding a larger boat involves being ready for significantly greater loads on things but I think once you get the hang of it, and everything is working well and all mechanical advantages are engaged, you'll be fine with the larger boat. One advantage to a larger heavier boat is that it won't lurch as quickly as a littler, lighter boat. I got hit by a gust a while back and nearly got thrown out of the cockpit! I've never sailed a Tartan so I am going by specs and rep, so I don't know how tender it is and how well it will point. I'm sure not as well as a fixed deeper keel but I suspect its adequate and that may be a trade-off you'll need for access to shallow harbors.
The encapsulated ballast and skeg are on the pro side for me in terms of strength in the event of striking something.

[ctsrj1]

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...on-37-3704342/
What is everyone’s thoughts on center boards?

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...an-37-3574091/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...ez-38-3239075/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...37-cb-3683477/

[Manateeman]

Please notice I never quote people. I feel it is rude and an example of poor manners. When my posts are quoted and then what follows is simply inaccurate, my only response is to ask such posters to state the source of their information .

The United States signed the IMO agreement. These laws apply to all citizens of the signed nation upon ALL International Waters.
AIS Does NOT relieve one from the requirements under Rule 5.
Neither do claims to be a NUC vessel.

If you choose to knowingly violate maritime law, that is your decision.
I posted the facts and the case law. Nothing posted here will change the validity of either the IMO rules nor the related case adjudicated under an internationally respected court.
It remains for sailors to respect the law and the interpretation of the law by courts or defy the law. The consequences of which extend beyond the individual. I make every effort to comply with admiralty not just to protect my license but because I believe these laws were well constructed to save lives. The law is never perfect but the IMO rules have a long history of saving lives and thus rightfully, should be respected.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his Federally protected manatees.