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Old 04-12-2016, 09:08   #61
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

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Old 04-12-2016, 09:17   #62
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

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Originally Posted by trbgld View Post
Myself being a programmer I have always thought that we are the most opinionated people on this planet but now I know I was wrong

I have learned a lot from your answers and I thank you all for your input!

The boat I was linking to is not and has never been the top choice on our list. But our budget is very tight and I picked her as an example of the "right amount of project boat" we are looking for.

When it comes to steel versus fiberglass I believe that there is no real "better". If a steel hull has been well cared for, I would probably prefer it. But since the boats we are looking at are all a bit older, this can't be guaranteed. So we have no real preference here. In the end we want the hull to keep the water out. That's what we care about

As for the discussion on the "go-anywhere" term I used in my initial posting: I guess I didn't choose my words wisely (English is my third language). By go-anywhere I implicitly excluded the arctic and any notoriously dangerous areas. Sorry for that.
Since you say that your budget is tight, but I assume that you want to have a strong boat, and it need not be the fastest and prettiest, my summary is that an old solid GRP boat (thick, no core) would be a good direction to study. Old steel boats might be rusty (and steel is at its best in somewhat larger boats), but those old GRP boats were built stronger than they are built today. There are also quite many such boats on the market.

If you want to have a project, then buy a boat that has some projects waiting (hopefully not in the hull). But if you want to get as much as you can with your limited budget, I'd recommend avoiding project boats, and instead checking numerous boats and taking some time to do that, to find a good individual. You will find a boat that is quite well equipped for blue-water cruising, and that has been well maintained (no projects waiting), and that is also cheap despite of all that. You get the projects cheaper by buying a boat that was already fixed by some enthusiastic sailors, not saving in costs, and not expecting to get all those costs back when selling the boat.
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Old 04-12-2016, 09:41   #63
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

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(...)

As for the discussion on the "go-anywhere" term I used in my initial posting: I guess I didn't choose my words wisely (English is my third language). By go-anywhere I implicitly excluded the arctic and any notoriously dangerous areas. (...)
Mate.

If you want a go anywhere boat but you are OK with not visiting the ice and the roughest of the seas, you will be 100% fine with any proven, well designed, well built, boat. Many of them are getting longer in the teeth now but they still make excellent seagoing choices and can come at very good prices too.

Someone above mentioned a S&S 34/35 boats. (Proper S&S34 and then Sagittas and other quality built derivatives). Look at a Contessa 32 - minimalistic - masochistic, OK, but is it not up to the job?

BTW. AVOID PROJECTS.

Cheap projects can be the most costly way to (never) go sailing. Projects are projects and sailing is done on the water, not in the boatyard. You want a sound, clean, quality boat. Be it of the older generation.

Not too long ago, my friends were shopping for a small go anywhere boat and they passed both a Sharki (old Amel) and a Nic 35 (old Nicholson) due to these 'not being like the modern boats'. I was taken aback, as a Sharki is probably a very nice entry point for a small go anywhere - heaps of protection from the sun, from the wind and from the rain built right into the boat. An old Nic 35 (the asking was GBP 22k) is not that great for protection but it IS a boat that can be refreshed to a very good seagoing standard for very reasonable money. Then only your charts are the limit.

So what I want to say there are countless quality boats to pick up and go sailing. Simply go for something proven, well designed, well built, well maintained. And avoid projects.

Have fun dreaming, buying and sailing!

b.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:56   #64
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

From the perspective of a metallurgical engineer with a Force 50, fiberglass ketch, owned and used over 10 years, I would be nervous about a steel hull. Galvanic corrosion and be quite complicated and dangerous. Additionally, haul out and repair can be a problem if not near a full service ship yard when U/W. Further, a ketch in that size boat adds complexity, especially if trying to single hand her. A sloop is one less mast and sail to deal with. If you make an offer on the boat make sure the surveyor is knowledgeable in steel hulls. A ultrasonic thickness examination by a certified technician is advisable, especially at areas more subject to corrosion thinning of the steel plate. Good luck with your choice and enjoy the boat you choose.
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:16   #65
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

If u want a boat that will go anywhere I would not buy an old steel boat unless I was an absolute pro with steel hull boats.
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Old 04-12-2016, 13:16   #66
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

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Thanks, I can read german. My point about the fuel tank is the size. If it's so little there's no point to mention the volume then it's inadaquate..

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Old 04-12-2016, 13:29   #67
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

I browsed and like her. Nice interiors, serious boat (diesel heater),no apparent humidity..... roomy.

Caution 1: long hull, round bilge... she may be prone to ROLLING wildly. You should check it out , missing a fin keel means that upwind ability is impaired and pounding on waves may turn fastidious (bow shouldn't be that fine line...)

Caution 2. Put your nose and elbows in the bilge.... for checking corrosion, and state of tank/plumbing fixing, as a flat bilge makes things worse. Any ponds, puddles of water? Rust? The electric system must be tip top. The tanks positively provide for stability, and some lead weights could be considered..
As additional..

If this checking is ok (including engine... you can do it), have it put on dry and surveyed for rigging, hull, rudder...,

In any case, offer 15% less, this boat is out of fashion now, not for the main market (like your car,... a volvo 245 polar!?). Ability to resale it approaches zero!

I Hope sails are viable. A ketch is slow but easy to manage, yet reaching is its best route. And you'll be using engine frequently. Volvo is not loved in scandinavia, but if well treated are usually generous engines.

Seaworthy!? This boat fares best in inner waters and modest waves, as Baltic is in (short) summer. It much depends where/when you go.. Slocum would beat anyone on that ship

Alternatives: any serious boat from the 70s/80s of same concept sails better....but a bit less roomy. That's a gipsy boat :-)
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Old 04-12-2016, 13:40   #68
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

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Since you say that your budget is tight, but I assume that you want to have a strong boat, and it need not be the fastest and prettiest, my summary is that an old solid GRP boat (thick, no core) would be a good direction to study. Old steel boats might be rusty (and steel is at its best in somewhat larger boats), but those old GRP boats were built stronger than they are built today. There are also quite many such boats on the market.

If you want to have a project, then buy a boat that has some projects waiting (hopefully not in the hull). But if you want to get as much as you can with your limited budget, I'd recommend avoiding project boats, and instead checking numerous boats and taking some time to do that, to find a good individual. You will find a boat that is quite well equipped for blue-water cruising, and that has been well maintained (no projects waiting), and that is also cheap despite of all that. You get the projects cheaper by buying a boat that was already fixed by some enthusiastic sailors, not saving in costs, and not expecting to get all those costs back when selling the boat.
Your Nauticat qualifies perfectly, for this, by year 2030, doesn't she ? :-)
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Old 04-12-2016, 13:46   #69
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

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Hello everybody!

I'm wondering what qualities a sailboat must have to be a (go anywhere) blue-water cruiser.
a shower
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Old 04-12-2016, 14:19   #70
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

A great go anywhere sailboat should be well built, not heavy, not light but just well built. You can buy very strong,light and fast well built boats or strong,heavy and moderate speed well built boats but the catch is that any choice from the lightest and the fastest to the heaviest the constant is that they are not cheap. You can't buy a really well built boat be it a light weight or a heavy weight for cheap. I'm not suggesting that you can't make it where you are going on a boat that is marginally built because there is all sorts of real world examples of that happening but you asked what it took to make a go anywhere sailboat and luck wasn't supposed to be part of the equation.
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Old 04-12-2016, 15:17   #71
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

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Your Nauticat qualifies perfectly, for this, by year 2030, doesn't she ? :-)
Yes, except that we got her in good condition already from the previous owners (thanks to them), and she has therefore been cheap to maintain to us. Maybe by 2030 we are retiring from the sport and ready to give her up at a reasonable price.
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Old 04-12-2016, 20:28   #72
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

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If I can german I can understand written dutch (not spoken )
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Old 05-12-2016, 18:02   #73
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

Offshore racing council list a lot of good requirements for offshore racing boats. Some of them are also valid for cruising boats.

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Old 05-12-2016, 18:41   #74
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

"What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?"

The Crew first, followed closely by the experts on Sailing and Cruising Forums.
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Old 05-12-2016, 19:52   #75
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Re: What makes a boat a go-anywhere blue-water cruiser?

tbrgld, and others who might ask this question:

I'm not sure what would help you the most. Boatman 61 was the first to mention the how heavy small steel boats are.

How you feel about slow as a concept is one thing, but slower means more days at sea, which means you need more room to store drinking water. To understand more about slow vs. faster, look up "Sail Area to Displacement Ratio".

I am from an older generation, when it was common for sailboats to have small engines, and for the owners to expect to use the engine little, and to be flexible as to when they might arrive somewhere. If you expect to arrive "on time", then you need more engine power and more fuel storage, and that cuts into life support supplies. Boats are all compromises.

Protection from the elements is very important, both against cold and wet, but also against sun. Ventilation is important.

The boat should be easy to singlehand. If a ketch, the mizzen sail should sheet to its own traveler, just like the mainsail. When you go to buy a boat with a partner, the winches should be large enough for the weakest crew person to be able to sheet in hard on the wind, hoist the heaviest sail. Can you reach the primary winches from the steering station?

Anchoring gear is really important. Have a look at the CF threads "Pictures of Anchors Setting", and "Videos of Anchors Setting."

Ability to work on the boat is critical, unless you have lots of money to spend having others work on them, and then you have to be crafty about selecting who it is that you are going to hire to help you.

Self steering is also important. Most people use electronic autopilots, however, wind steering is wonderful, silent, needs no battery power, and simple.

While a ketch can indeed "go anywhere", assuming it keeps the water on the outside and the pointy ends up, I'd rather have a cutter (better overall performance, imo), but it really does come down to a choice of what you, the buyer, prefers.

The whole boat must work well in a seaway, you have to be able to get about on it safely, handholds are important, cooking should be pretty easy, the stowage should work, you need good sea berths. This is where the older design boats are often superior. If you're looking at older boats, grp is probably a better idea for a newbie than steel, because the kinds of trouble old steel hulls develop can be hard to see, but still sink you. If you buy steel, you will soon become intimate friends with paints and brushes.

You need few through hulls. All accessible.

And that's enough of an answer to start with.

Ann
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