What is the heaviest cloth for code zero?

[Snowdrop]

We would like a 90 to 100 square metre light airs code zero / light weight Genoa with torsion line made from durable polyester.

Currently use a Karver KF5 furler with endless furling line and wondered what is the heaviest cloth this setup would handle? Looking at stormlight 510 ( 4.5oz ) but open to suggestions.

[a64pilot]

An issue with us is that the boat becomes overpowered with our code zero in winds above about 15 kts, before the fabric weight becomes an issue.

[Snowdrop]

That’s quite a lot of wind. Though that depends upon the size of your code zero?

[a64pilot]

Mack Sails said it’s good for 20 something kts I believe so I threw the 15 out there.
Depends on point of sail, downwind 15 becomes 10 pretty quick

However the point is that even with lightweight cloth, a Code 0 is so big that it overpowers the Boat well before the cloth becomes an issue.

[a64pilot]

Not my IP, but a very similar boat.
If your interested, they also say 20 kts apparent.
http://svislandspirit.com/code-zero-sail-added/

[Snowdrop]

I take your point about being overpowered by the sheer size of the sail area.

My concerns about the weight stem from wanting to know how durable the sail material has to be to endure 15+ winds and lots of strong UV on a daily basis.

Our only large sail experience has been with a furling asymmetric code D (1.5oz. 160 sq m). After just two seasons our spinnaker cloth isn’t in the best of shape so I am finding it difficult to see how a lightweight spinnaker cloth being strong enough?

Is a proper 4oz woven cloth is worth the extra 20% over a 3oz. or will the heavier material just hang like a bad set of curtains?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Mack Sails said it’s good for 20 something kts I believe so I threw the 15 out there.
Depends on point of sail, downwind 15 becomes 10 pretty quick

However the point is that even with lightweight cloth, a Code 0 is so big that it overpowers the Boat well before the cloth becomes an issue.

I agree. I also have a mack code zero, it's furled before fabric becomes an issue as I'm starting to round up. Above 12 I'm - 15 and I'm furling it up.

[a64pilot]

I think heavier cloth defeats the purpose.
Our Code Zero has a UV cover so you can leave it furled for some time.
It’s relatively light weight, but you can tell that in extremely light winds the sail would be better without it. Add heavier fabric and I think you may kill the sail in winds that it’s intended for.

Boat came from the factory with a 110 Genoa, I had a 135 made for lighter winds before considering a Code Zero.
That was a mistake, in light winds the 135 is too heavy to fly right, and in stiffer winds it’s too much sail, yes you can reef it, but it’s not as good reefed down as a 110. I lost a little windward ability, plus now that I have the Code Zero there is too much overlap if you will between the two. I can carry the Code Zero long enough so that when it’s put away, a 110 would be the right sail.

I think going to heavier cloth on a Code Zero may adversely affect it’s light wind capabilities, and in heavier winds where you would need the heavier cloth, the Code Zero is just too big, you would be way overpowered.
It’s a light wind sail.

However temper all of this with the fact that I have little if any sailing experience and have never raced anything, it’s just my belief based on my boat.

However I can see why the ideal is a whole plethora of head sails, just money and storage space, and in fact laziness keep me from going that route.

[Privilege]

Snowdrop,

As mentioned on your other post, I also have a bowsprit setup with a Karver K5 furler. I also went through the decision making process in buying a new sail wardrobe a couple of years ago. This is what I decided and what I have since learnt.

My intended use for the sails is inshore cruising with a fast-approaching goal of long-term offshore cruising. Although I obviously want the best speed from my sails, I'm not racing anywhere and a big consideration was ease of use. For winds of 13kts+ I have the standard genoa and main. My biggest learning curve related to lighter wind sails. I was happy to restrict my additional wardrobe to a sail for mainly downwind and a sail for mainly upwind sailing. Having done my research, I went with a deep cut asym spinnaker and for upwind, I went with a screecher. The screecher is cut like a big genoa and attaches to the bowsprit with a torsion line sewn into the luff. I decided at the time to go with a heavier material for longevity and had it made from 3.8oz dacron. (Sorry, I gave you wrong info. on the other post). It works great and it's super easy to furl by hand even with a bit of wind in the sail. However, as I had it cut with a heavier cloth, as you are considering, I found that it wasn't significantly different from my big genoa and only filled a small gap in my wardrobe of upwind sailing in the 5-12kt range.

Last year I purchased a code zero. An enormous great sail made from 2.2oz nylon. It has a torsion line sewn in the luff. I really love this sail and it has become my go-to sail in light wind. It deploys and furls just as easily as the screecher, both of which are night-and-day when compared to my mis-behaved asym. The biggest difference with the code zero is the range at which I can use it...let me explain.

I'm only brave enough to use my asym in wind up to about 17kts and I found that when I used it at wind angles of say 140 degrees, the boat would pick up enough speed to push the AWA forward so that I was practically sailing on a beam reach. Any wind forward of around 130 degrees would result in the apparent the wind coming forward of the beam. Although the code zero isn't designed for running, it practically achieves the same thing whereby the apparent wind quickly comes around to perfect angles for the code zero. On top of that, the code zero is still happy to sail up to around 50 degrees in light wind with a tightened luff.

Therefore, unless I know that the wind is going to be at my back all day, or I'll be close reaching all day, the code zero is always the go-to sail in light winds. At 2.2oz, the sail is quite happy at TWS above 15kts but its such a big sail that at that speed my conservative side kicks in and the genny comes out. So, to answer your question, as others have said, unless you're really going to push your boat to its limits, there's really no point in going with a code zero made from heavier material.

I'm not expert, I'm just telling you what seems to work for my boat.

[Snowdrop]

Genoa on steroids , screecher, reecher, drifter or just plain cruising code zero.
The blurring of definition and interpretation isn’t helped by the wide variety of responses from sailmakers and the fabrics they suggest. Most proposed expensive laminates. They tell me that without the strength of this material the sail will just stretch and fail to perform - and yet so many people seem to be having a lot of fun with “inferior” spinnaker-like lightweight sail cloth. Is the laminate option essential in this application?

Lofts down under seem to take a different approach by promoting lightweight polyester for cruising. I like the durability and repair-ability of this material and would like to go lighter to maybe 3oz. My concern is will this material really just go baggy in an instant if trying to close haul in say 5 to 10 knots as some have said?

Below 5 knots and with 17 tons to move I think me and my wife will continue to play Engine Chicken.

Your comments and experiences really do help cut through well meaning sailmaker “speak” that often does nothing to simplify the buying process.