Originally Posted by Stu Jackson
That's a hoot, Augi. If you're in Mexico
you are rarely down below while awake. If you're sailing to the Channel Islands you don't want to be down below cuz of traffic. If you're sailing down the coast you want to be in the cockpit
cuz day and night are delightful and getting warmer. If you're bashing up the coast the very last place you wanna be is down below.
Man, $200K for a "nice" interior
that you like but rarely use.
Wish I had dem chops.
Care to tell us what you don't like about "prod boat interiors," since they are all so different?
Thanks for your feedback.
I agree. I will be usually only sleeping and preparing meals
below. However, I live in Guatemala
and whatever I buy will also serve as my condo in SouCal and wherever on the Sea of Cortez.
Some of the production boat interiors I like. What I don't like in many cases is what I consider to be cheap
looking laminate on top of plywood
often with sharp edges, subject to chipping, cheap interior hardware
on cabinets, doors, etc. I would rather have all plastic or fiberglass
or composite with some wood trim, as you can see on the Pogo's and JPK's, RM's or solid wood as on older boats in my price
range. That is just my taste. Some one else may prefer the interior of most of the production boats.
The fact of the matter is a new Pogo or JPK with an interior I like does not cost much more upfront than a new typical production boat and certainly is no more expensive in terms of total cost to own over 5 years.
One of the parameters in the initial post is taking into account total cost to own which includes cost of maintenance
, cost of repairs
, cost of storage
and cost of depreciation, in addition to upfront cost.
A Pogo or JPK are not going to depreciate or cost as much to maintain as a typical production boat built for charter
companies. In terms of depreciation the 20+ year old Beneteau
and Hylas center cockpit
boats I proposed in an earlier post are not going to cost as much compared to a typical 1-5 year old production boat. Maintenance
could easily be more or could be less for the 20+ year old Hylas or Beneteau versus 1-5 year old production yacht. That is sort of luck of the draw depending out what is about to fail while you own what you decide on among the above choices.
If you buy a new Pogo 36' for $250K and it only depreciates by $35K in 5 years and costs 1/2 to maintain as a comparable production yacht OR buy a new, comparable size production yacht for $200K but it depreciates $75K in 5 years, you come out ahead on the Pogo including the cost of having more money
tied up. It gets more dramatic in favor of the Pogo when you go up to a Pogo 12.5(40') and 40' production boat even though the new Pogo 12.5 costs $350K and a new production 40' boat cost $250K. Same thing for 5 year old Pogo 12.5 and 5 year old 40' production boat unless you come across some one puking up a typical 5 year old production yacht. That is not likely to happen with a Pogo or JPK.
Another thing the volume inside and room in the cockpit of a Pogo is equal to a typical production yacht 5 feet longer because Pogo's have a more beam per ft of length than most any other mono hull
Over 5 years taking everything into account(not just upfront cost), you certainly are not going to be worse off financially with Pogo or JPK than if you bought a comparable length production boat. The JPK's, Pogo's and RM's are comfortable enough for my use in terms of finish(others might prefer the finish of a typical production yacht built for the charter
companies). The Pogo, JPK, and RM are more comfortable while sailing than a typical production boat except close hauled in a chop. Plus with a Pogo or a JPK(not sure about RM), I am going to feel safer if I get caught out in the Channels Islands in 40 knots of wind
and a difficult sea state or bashing north from La Paz. That also means I can get more sailing in, assuming my seaman ship is up to snuff, because there are conditions or expected weather when I would venture out in a Pogo or JPK and not a typical production boat.
The idea of the post is get feedback on the different options up to $300K(or less), up front, for my intended use. Of course money
matters. It almost always matters. I am fortunate I can afford to tie up $300K for 5 years upfront if I want, plus maintenance, repairs
, depreciation and storage
to pursue a hobby. In my original post I put as a parameter upfront cost of "$300K or less, including repairs and any refit". I chose $300K because that is what a fully equipped 38'-40' Pogo or JPK costs ready to sail away.
If it means tying up $50K or $100K more upfront to have significantly more fun, that is OK, especially if after 5 years I get the $50K or $100K back, less the cost of the use of the money.
As the cliché goes when my time comes, I am not going to be concerned about the things I did. I am going to be concerned about the things I did not do. As Maynard Keynes, the famous economist, apparently said on his death bed
, "I should have drunk champagne". Or from a different angle when a friend of mine's father was asked by his kids
about their inheritance due to their concern about their father's spending habits, his answer was, "I hope the last check bounces!"
You could say I am splitting hairs and just go buy a 5 year old, well equipped and well maintained 40 ft Beneteau for $150K and be done with it. But what are most of the discussions in these forums
about? Mostly the discussions are about how to go about an expensive avocation, between people more fortunate than most
I really like the Pogo's and JPK's. My only concern is are they OK for my intended use. I know the sailing is going to be exceptionally fun except going to weather close hauled in a chop or if you have to motor
for a long time directly into the wind
and into a mixed up, mostly oncoming sea like bashing north from La Paz / Cabo San Lucas. I know the comfort will be just fine for my intended use in a Pogo or JPK that is 36' and above. A Pogo 30's could even work
but it is on the deg of being too spartan.
I am certain that the Pogo's and JPK's are less likely to have a major failure than a typical production boat bashing north from Cabo San Lucas. But you might need all new fillings when you get back to SouCal if you did the trip in a Pogo or JPK more so than a typcial production boat.
I also like an older a bit more heavy duty vessel like the Hylas center cockpit
and Beneteau center cockpit but still sails
pretty well, and that also has an interior I like more than a 1-5 year typical production yacht. Two other models I would put in that category for my use would be a used Island Packet
420 or Pacific Seacraft
40, in good repair that are going to cost about the same as a comparable typical production boat but not as much fun as a Pogo or JPK
No matter what the boat is within the stated parameters it may be best off trucking it north from wherever on the Sea if Cortez to Ensenada or SouCal. Or as Stu suggested buy two 100K-150K boats, one for the Channel Islands and one for the Sea of Cortez.
It is all good!
I am going to enjoy the process and spend the next year trying out different boats simulating the conditions I expect to encounter for my intended use. Plus I am going to crew on a boat doing the Baja
Bash before buying
Thanks for everyone's comments!