What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

[eyschulman]

Blue Water Boat is a little like the recreational trawler designation and means different things to different people. Both concepts are a little fuzzy. You basically have to pick a boat that works well with your intended use patterns making reasonable compromise where needed.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

If you are doing the Atlantic run and the med you could basically use just about anything. My advice is get the biggest you can afford - Production or one-off, mono or cat.

Make sure it's sound (same with buying any boat) and well checked out.

One bit of advice - The object of cruising is not the passage. We sail from A to B in order to enjoy B. The piece (passage) in between is something you just have to do to get to B, and you should do it as quickly as possible. You will spend 5% of your sailing time doing the passages and 95% bolt upright in a marina or great anchorage, enjoying the boat and all the other things that we love about cruising.

So buy the boat that does the 95% great and the 5% just good enough.

Both the Atlantic and the Med can be very rough.

The Atlantic passage east is easy but the return passage - from the Canaries to the Caribbean can be one of the worlds roughest passages. I have done it several times and the last one was like being inside of a washing machine.

The Med is also a very windy place.

Do not buy the biggest boat you can afford. That is a yacht brokers credo. Buy a boat that you can handle, short handed in all conditions and one that you can maintain.

While yes, most of the time you are on your boat you wil not be on passage, you must do the passage to get there. Full keel is not necessary.

Mine is a low aspect fin keel and a skeg hung rudder. Better performing that a full keel but less comfortable.

[Greg Mason]

I love the different explanations of Water boats">Blue Water boats. You did not mention it, but if your choice is to have insurance, will the boat you choose be coverable? We cruise the North Pacific, have cruised the South Pacific, and when you get past the continental shelf, Blue Water will be self explanatory. Over 100 miles offshore, the ocean is a different colour. That's when you understand having confidence in the vessel you have chosen makes all the difference in the world. And you will be alone.

[Hardhead]

In my opinion, I consider a blue-water boat to be a boat that can handle all that the sea can reasonably throw at it, assuming proper seamanship.

Almost any sailboat can cross the Atlantic in fine weather, but not all can handle 2 weeks of heavy bashing trying to do it. A blue-water boat is designed for that possibility, a non blue-water boat is not.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

In my opinion, I consider a blue-water boat to be a boat that can handle all that the sea can reasonably throw at it, assuming proper seamanship.

Almost any sailboat can cross the Atlantic in fine weather, but not all can handle 2 weeks of heavy bashing trying to do it. A blue-water boat is designed for that possibility, a non blue-water boat is not.

Hey Hardhead, (that's what we used to call crocker back in the day btw)

I thought the idea was to try and miss the two weeks of bashing even on a blue water boat while crossing oceans by using good weather receiving equipment

[john61ct]

But sh1t happens, I do not want to put my life in the hands of weather predictions alone.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by john61ct

But sh1t happens, I do not want to put my life in the hands of weather predictions alone.

I would try to avoid two weeks of bad weather on any boat

There are blue water boats and there are ocean storms that can take out any boat so getting a great blue water boat is no guarantee anyway......

Getting good weather receiving equipment is paramount

[MJH]

Originally Posted by WingRyder

Hello, I'm back with another silly question. I am now in the process of getting rid of everything I own (except for tools and clothing), in preparation for getting out of my lease by January and looking for a boat.

I have spent the past several months combing over YW, Sailboatlistings, Craigslist, etc... and Using resources such as Bluewaterboats.org, to try and make an informed decision on the size and type of boat that I want... within my budget of course. I am currently looking for a 32-35' bluewater capable boat (Allied 32, 33, 35, Pearson 32, 35, Bristol 34, Westsail 32, etc...). These are at the top of my list, but there are other boats that have caught my eye, that aren't listed as "blue water boats" such as Endeavour 32, Islanders, Catalinas, C&C, etc.

I don't plan on a circumnavigation, but I would like to cross the Atlantic to Europe and the Mediterranean in about 7-10 years, and return a couple of years later.

My question is this: Do you NEED a blue water boat to make an occasional blue water passage? Or are "blue water" boats made to withstand continuous ocean passages. I would like to get the best built boat that I can afford, and I understand that I will probably have to put a LOT of sweat equity into any boat purchase in my initial price range ($10 - $20k).

I have done a fair amount of research, and I really like the old classic plastic boats anyway, but there are many other boats that I like, I just want to make sure that I would feel confident in the boat to brave a crossing, or heavy seas.

I appreciate any insight you can offer.

-Harrison.

"There is no perfect boat" and concomitantly boats are use-design limited. By saying that you are generally going to be coastal cruise, but want to take to take it across an ocean or two, your mixing your "mission requirements".

I am a firm believer that any boat can sail across any body of water "given the right conditions", weather and otherwise; it is understood the conditions will dictate your challenges and possible survival and they are an unknown variable for the most part. This explains why some inland/coastal cruisers have successfully sailed across oceans...they were either good sailors or lucky. You don't want to put yourself into a position where you end up saying, "We're gonna need a bigger boat!" (Jaws, 1975)...make your plan and play your plan.

I endorse the recommendations found in the Yachting Monthly article previously mentioned except I would add Comfort Index and Capsize Risk to it; AVS, STIX, and Polar charts are not available for all boats. Build a spreadsheet with all of these boat specifications and see how they compare on paper...you will gain an immense perspective to be used for your selection.

You can inland/coastal cruise with just about any boat with the basics. Upgrading that boat for an offshore passage requires a lot of planning and upgrades. Doing so on a smaller boat will be somewhat cheaper. Concentrate on the basics: strong hull, strong mast, excellent sails and rigging. The rest is negotiable.

Lastly, I disagree totally with the previous writer that said,

"The object of cruising is not the passage. We sail from A to B in order to enjoy B. The piece (passage) in between is something you just have to do to get to B, and you should do it as quickly as possible. You will spend 5% of your sailing time doing the passages and 95% bolt upright in a marina or great anchorage, enjoying the boat and all the other things that we love about cruising."

He is not a true sailor, he is a tourist and should fly instead. For me getting there (the sailing) is the challenge and all the fun, the touring is OK but not the reason I cruise.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Lihuedooley77]

Were it us, crossing oceans, and making long passages, we would want a strong, well built, well maintained mono hull. Catalinas and hunters would not be on the list.

The OP, had a good list of ocean passage capable sailing vessels.

Be sure that you have some one very knowledgeable, with you there, go thru the entire vessel, systems, fittings, rigging, electrical, all pumps, engine, hull, steering, electronics, ice box, generator, winches, stove, batteries, sails, reefing system, marine head systems, pump out easy for holding tank, bilges, etc, etc.

At the same time , you are getting knowledgeable on all of the above . Have a squawk sheet and clip board with you, and note any and all discrepancies.

And, if that all passes muster, then get an independent Survey on the vessel.

And, also a good long sea trial, out on ocean waters. You sailing, coming about, jibing, sail trim, all points of sail, reefing, sail changes, heaving to, anchoring and docking.

Frankly, I do not care what brokers and owners tell me, I need to handle and manage, and operate all systems, lines, and rigging my self, and sail that puppy single handed, with no help from the owner or his rep. ( They will, of course, be on board but they will not be there when you let go dock lines and head out on your adventures in paradise. )


Lots of other things, like stowage areas, fuel and fresh water capacity, head room in the down below spaces as well as leg room in the berths, comfort and ease of steering and handling sheets and halyards in the cockpit. Anchor, chain, rode, and windlass.

For us, a well found, and well maintained vessel would be required.

Others do not feel the same, if the engine starts and there is a GPS, done deal.

We all have different requirements, and stages of being prepared for sailing and the conditions that mother ocean may sling at us

You , also have received very excellent posts and information by members of CF....good stuff !

[Lihuedooley77]

A quick add on, a monohull would have to be in the mid 30's....36 or 37. Something that Erica and I could handle in all conditions and situations and still be comfortable for us to live aboard daily. Storage of gear and provisions, and sails and fenders, and dock lines, extra water, and outside stowed extra fuel .

[B23iL23]

Sure the med can be rough but my point was it's not like the southern ocean. Like anywhere you plan your passages and pick and window and go.

Same with East to West in the Atlantic. Leave Canaries mid/late November, go due south until 200 miles north of Cape Verde and then start going west (ie around 10 degrees north). Cutting the corner and going direct from Canaries can get you into bad weather.

On the biggest boat you can afford - buy the boat to suit your intended sailing whether that's short handed or fully loaded, but if you think you will need a little more space then go for it, provided you can manage it with the crew you have. You can't make more space later on.

Agreed on the full keel. No need for these designs any more. They had their time and we've moved on with design and manufacturing techniques.

Originally Posted by stormalong

Both the Atlantic and the Med can be very rough.

The Atlantic passage east is easy but the return passage - from the Canaries to the Caribbean can be one of the worlds roughest passages. I have done it several times and the last one was like being inside of a washing machine.

The Med is also a very windy place.

Do not buy the biggest boat you can afford. That is a yacht brokers credo. Buy a boat that you can handle, short handed in all conditions and one that you can maintain.

While yes, most of the time you are on your boat you wil not be on passage, you must do the passage to get there. Full keel is not necessary.

Mine is a low aspect fin keel and a skeg hung rudder. Better performing that a full keel but less comfortable.

[atlantical]

I can tell you have never done the passage east to Europe, its the passage west that is easy, the passage east is on the westerlies, they are unreliable, sometimes there is no wind, and sometimes there is way too much wind, I have done it both ways, and the journey from Bermuda to Scotland is a very tough one, the worst it got was force ten, on the way west people even row it, and raft it, you won't do that going east, I shredded two jibs on the way, and my main sail was tattered by the time I arrived in Scotland. I also noticed that most of the boats leaving Bermuda had delivery crews, they told me that people do the run across the Atlantic East to West so that they can say they have done it, then get a delivery crew to take there boat back as they know how bad it can be.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Agreed on the full keel. No need for these designs any more. They had their time and we've moved on with design and manufacturing techniques.

Actually, not quite everyone has moved on from the full keel boats for ocean crossing or RTW sailing

At least eighteen people were still using them when this race started:

https://goldengloberace.com/

And it looks like eight are still in use. https://goldengloberace.com/livetracker/

The four lead boats are sailing the Rustler 36 (Full Keel)

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3696

[atlantical]

To say that is one of the worlds roughest passages is just crazy, I was in the merchant navy for twenty years and that journey on any ship, is a milk run, try the northern route east to west, or routes across the north sea, the baltic, I don't know where you get that as being one of the toughest routes, its a route for retired weekend sailors that want to say they have crossed the Atlantic.

[Don C L]

Other than a submarine there are precious few boats that can handle EVERYTHING the sea throws at them. But to know EXACTLY what makes a bluewater boat you have to take boat and sailor together. Maybe better to ask what makes a (successful) bluewater sailor. I have a friend who delivers boats all over the world and he has his criteria based on his experience. Surprisingly he does not look down his nose at too many boats, but he will flatly say, “that boat is not prepared to cross an ocean” by looking at how it is equipped. So best to learn from bluewater sailors what they look for in a boat.... you might also check atomvoyages.com for some good tips, even though it is oriented to smaller boats. Mahina.com has some good tips too.