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Old 09-10-2018, 11:34   #46
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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Originally Posted by B23iL23 View Post
If you are doing the Atlantic run and the med you could basically use just about anything. My advice is get the biggest you can afford - Production or one-off, mono or cat.

Make sure it's sound (same with buying any boat) and well checked out.

One bit of advice - The object of cruising is not the passage. We sail from A to B in order to enjoy B. The piece (passage) in between is something you just have to do to get to B, and you should do it as quickly as possible. You will spend 5% of your sailing time doing the passages and 95% bolt upright in a marina or great anchorage, enjoying the boat and all the other things that we love about cruising.

So buy the boat that does the 95% great and the 5% just good enough.
If the point is to simply get from A to B, a boat is without doubt the most expensive, least comfortable, and slowest way to accomplish that. If the passage is just something you reluctantly put up with in order to get to B, then sell your boat now. Fly first class, stay in a great hotel, and be way more comfortable and money ahead. Or, if for some reason you just like sitting in one place on a boat, plenty of people will be happy to take your money in exchange for letting you sleep on their marina queen.

Some of us sail mostly for the time we are out of sight of land, all alone in the world, being borne along by nothing more than the air around us. For many of us, one of the primary objects of cruising is indeed the passages.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:35   #47
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

I was to the North East of Bermuda on the 15th May 2014 when Tiki Rafiki lost it keel, and its crew lost there lives, I was glad to be in a full keel boat, it meant one less thing to worry about, no keel bolts to break, You also find that a full keel boat sails itself with no self steering, you just set the sails, and it will sail in the direction you aim it until the wind changes, I sailed my southern cross 31 from the US to Scotland single handing, no self steering, I reckon I wouldnt even need the rudder. I have had a couple of fin keel boat, had a Grampian, and an Irwin, they were ok, buy you have to remember, its a huge chunk of metal bolted onto the bottom of the boat.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:39   #48
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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One more thing. I'll probably get slammed by some for this - You do not need a traditional long keeler, full skeg, battleship. Not for the Atlantic and certainly not for the med. Hundreds of modern production boats do this circuit every year.

https://www.worldcruising.com/conten...n%20161217.pdf
I agree completly with this opinion. Traditionally, heavy, long keeled, double ender boats where considered 'blue water' vessels. But modern naval architecture, computers, simulation, has changed all this. Well built boat, with modern hull shape, are faster and quite sea worthy. In fact heavy 'traditional boat had been proved to be sometime dangerous in heavy weather.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:42   #49
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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I love the different explanations of Blue Water boats. You did not mention it, but if your choice is to have insurance, will the boat you choose be coverable? We cruise the North Pacific, have cruised the South Pacific, and when you get past the continental shelf, Blue Water will be self explanatory. Over 100 miles offshore, the ocean is a different colour. That's when you understand having confidence in the vessel you have chosen makes all the difference in the world. And you will be alone.

Insurance matters after something goes wrong
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:47   #50
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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Originally Posted by Elie View Post
I agree completly with this opinion. Traditionally, heavy, long keeled, double ender boats where considered 'blue water' vessels. But modern naval architecture, computers, simulation, has changed all this. Well built boat, with modern hull shape, are faster and quite sea worthy. In fact heavy 'traditional boat had been proved to be sometime dangerous in heavy weather.
While I’d agree there are many modern designs that are perfectly capable “bluewater,” I’d like to know to which boats you are referring when you say traditional heavy boats that are dangerous in heavy weather.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:47   #51
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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I agree completly with this opinion. Traditionally, heavy, long keeled, double ender boats where considered 'blue water' vessels. But modern naval architecture, computers, simulation, has changed all this. Well built boat, with modern hull shape, are faster and quite sea worthy. In fact heavy 'traditional boat had been proved to be sometime dangerous in heavy weather.
theres an undefined tipping point that suggests a vessel must have the basics to survive but can have the ability run when she needs to. The conundrum between survivability and the speed to run for cover.

Obviously no one boat is good at all, but ask yourself if she can handle a rollover, and outrun the dangerous heart of a cyclone given 3 days notice
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:48   #52
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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modern naval architecture, computers, simulation, has changed all this. Well built boat, with modern hull shape, are faster and quite sea worthy.
But these are not available for the kind of money you can get the classic plastic ones in even immaculate turnkey condition.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:51   #53
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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A quick add on, a monohull would have to be in the mid 30's....36 or 37. Something that Erica and I could handle in all conditions and situations and still be comfortable for us to live aboard daily. Storage of gear and provisions, and sails and fenders, and dock lines, extra water, and outside stowed extra fuel .
Plenty of single handers cross oceans in smaller models. Yes with crew it gets cramped, but some love "roughing it" camping style.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:59   #54
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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Getting good weather receiving equipment is paramount
I was not saying otherwise.

I meant having the best predictions possible should not lead one to think it's OK to compromise on the boat's seaworthiness.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:19   #55
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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While I’d agree there are many modern designs that are perfectly capable “bluewater,” I’d like to know to which boats you are referring when you say traditional heavy boats that are dangerous in heavy weather.
Well, the Smeeton's Tzu Hang does come to mind...

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Old 09-10-2018, 12:21   #56
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

I have owned 2 different Catalina 27's. The first one had issues with the keel bolts, which is not unusual. Per a surveyor at the time - I was selling the boat - I ended drilling and installing lag bolts. Truthfully, I didn't like it, but the buyer was happy and that ended the matter.

I have much more confidence in my current boat, a Cape Dory 28, with its full keel and fully encapsulated ballast.

I would take an older full keel model such as mine over a much newer fin or fin and skeg model. When the weather gets rough there is always more than enough wind to make hull speed. A newer model will not get you "out of the way" any better. Speed is based on waterline. And really, the difference between 6 knots and 7 is only 24 miles a day. Also, my boat will stand up to wind better than a lighter boat, allowing me to continue sailing when other lighter boats are hove to - if they can even do so - which is another "plus" for full keel boats.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:27   #57
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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Actually, not quite everyone has moved on from the full keel boats for ocean crossing or RTW sailing

At least eighteen people were still using them when this race started:

https://goldengloberace.com/

And it looks like eight are still in use. https://goldengloberace.com/livetracker/

The four lead boats are sailing the Rustler 36 (Full Keel)

RUSTLER 36 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
Hmmm... when ten out of eighteen have dropped out before even reaching the Horn, and two have been rolled, it is hard to use this example as proof of a design genre's capabilities.

And do note that the reason that these designs are in this race is because Don McEntire (the promoter) REQUIRED that the entries were from a short list of designs that HE put together... and they were all full keel boats.

Sailing, let alone racing in those waters is demanding of a higher level of seaworthyness and seamanship than anything the normal cruiser will do, even those who do end up circumnavigating.

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Old 09-10-2018, 12:38   #58
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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This site claims all these boats are Blue Water Boats.

So maybe you can look over a few of them and get the idea.....

Sailboat Reviews of Offshore Cruising Yachts : Bluewaterboats.org

you still have to be careful though
the view they show for the Pearson 36 cutter by mast and helm location is actually the 365 ketch.

Is there a difference, well some would say yes.But they did get the keel right, not sure where the disparity originates from
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:51   #59
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

You won’t know until you’ve gone thru a few storms.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:53   #60
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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Originally Posted by ZULU40 View Post
theres an undefined tipping point that suggests a vessel must have the basics to survive but can have the ability run when she needs to. The conundrum between survivability and the speed to run for cover.

Obviously no one boat is good at all, but ask yourself if she can handle a rollover, and outrun the dangerous heart of a cyclone given 3 days notice
What kind of cyclone? Tropical you can "walk" away but with extratropical there's a chance as good as a snowflake has in he** to outrun regardless of the boat. So better ask the question about rollover..
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