What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by PaulCrawhorn

Kids should be able to ride public transport alone, from 6-7 y.o.

That would sure be nice. Where do you live?

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by thomm225

The Mahina Blue Water Boat List is still active.....updated April 2021.

http://mahina.com/wp-content/uploads...e-Cruising.pdf

Love to see my person unicorn, the Sirius 35DS, on there.

Curious why this one is omitted. https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/co...-alan-williams

A mystery that only adds to suspicions about the subjectivity of this designation.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Love to see my person unicorn, the Sirius 35DS, on there.

Curious why this one is omitted. https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/co...-alan-williams

A mystery that only adds to suspicions about the subjectivity of this designation.

Guess you could check with john Neal.

https://mahina.com/

https://mahina.com/contact/

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

True, the 500 is stronger though and they did a 4x4 version at one time

Boat strength is not about hull thickness that’s merely weight

New stuff here! 🙂 As “Fiat 500 (at the bottom rating of any mini car at CR) is stronger than Toyota 4Runner (at the top of off-road at CR)”, this puts the your other claims regarding the topics in the right context.

If you’ll bother to watch the vlog you may find something…

[stormalong]

This is post number 455.

After all that has been said, "blue water boat" is a marketing term invented to entice boat sales period. The term is meaningless.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by stormalong

This is post number 455.
After all that has been said, "blue water boat" is a marketing term invented to entice boat sales period. The term is meaningless.

You're probably right, a better way might be to say;
A "Blue" water boat can withstand being swept by "Green" water.

[Mike OReilly]

The way I think of it is that a "bluewater boat" is like an "off-road vehicle" or a "whitewater canoe." While just about any vehicle can go off-road, or any canoe can run whitewater, there are some that are simply purpose-designed/built to be better suited for the task.

To me, a bluewater boat is one that is designed and built to manage the rigours of long-distance, long-duration travel through a hostile nautical environment. Not all boats are designed with this in mind. Many more are designed/built with crew comfort and recreation for short duration, short distance travel. Or are designed/built for racing and speed. Or are designed to be wonderful docominiums.

Point is that boats, just like cars or canoes, are designed and built with certain needs or objectives in mind. It's not that they all (or most) can't do everything, but in the case of bluewater cruising, not all boats are meant for this kind of activity.

[Emmalina]

This made it from Italy to Norther Ireland how blue do you want :/

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The way I think of it is that a "bluewater boat" is like an "off-road vehicle" or a "whitewater canoe." While just about any vehicle can go off-road, or any canoe can run whitewater, there are some that are simply purpose-designed/built to be better suited for the task.

To me, a bluewater boat is one that is designed and built to manage the rigours of long-distance, long-duration travel through a hostile nautical environment. Not all boats are designed with this in mind. Many more are designed/built with crew comfort and recreation for short duration, short distance travel. Or are designed/built for racing and speed. Or are designed to be wonderful docominiums.

Point is that boats, just like cars or canoes, are designed and built with certain needs or objectives in mind. It's not that they all (or most) can't do everything, but in the case of bluewater cruising, not all boats are meant for this kind of activity.

Excactly Mike!
Without knowing the designers agenda the first clue is the tankage and storage. If you need to load jerry cans of fuel and can't stow food supplies out of sight..

[rotrax]

AFAIK our boat floats in water of all colours!


Graded Cat. A by the pretty useless RCD European system it is, of course, capable of crossing oceans and no doubt a circumnavigation. USCG certified build quality, for what that is worth.



We use it for cruising the North European seas and coasts. It is very suitable for this use, seaworthy, dry, with a more comfortable motion in comparison to lighter vessels. It had large fuel and water tanks plus huge internal storage.



IMHO, crew endurance is of far more importance than the boat.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by rotrax

IMHO, crew endurance is of far more importance than the boat.

Yes, this is often noted in these discussions. And while it's absolutely true, it also sidesteps the reality that different boats are better suited for "bluewater" travel vs others. It's not necessarily a question of build/design quality, although obviously this matters as well. It's mainly a matter of design/build intent.

No one would doubt the quality of an Audi A7 or a Porsche Cayman, but you wouldn't take one off on a remote logging road. So too with a beautiful flatwater canoe vs one designed for whitewater. Both can be top-quality and well built, but they are aimed to do different things.

I think TeddyDriver's mention of tankage and storage is a good example of what I'm getting at. A boat whose intent is for long-range, long-duration travel (part of my definition of "bluewater) will have large tankage and storage. It's not that other boats can't undertake "bluewater" travels. It's just that they likely weren't designed and built with this activity in mind.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by DeValency

New stuff here! As “Fiat 500 (at the bottom rating of any mini car at CR) is stronger than Toyota 4Runner (at the top of off-road at CR)”, this puts the your other claims regarding the topics in the right context.



If you’ll bother to watch the vlog you may find something…

CR being an authoritative source given its North American origins

The 500 ( especially the older One ) is a very hard car to kill can be fixed with a screwdriver and parts are dirt cheap.

The point is why I made it. Real life experience is far better then reading consumer magazines

The same is true for armchair sailors discussing so called blue water yachts as meanwhile 1000s of AWBs safely cross oceans, sail in stormy waters and bring their crews safely to their destinations.


I’ve deliver Dozens of AWBs through conditions few leisure sailors will ever meet. Each boat has its advantages and drawbacks etc. It’s also a myth that the worse conditions are on the oceans , in my experience the Med near the Balearics throws up the worst conditions I’ve ever seen followed closely by Biscay in winter
( none of which have good shelter options ) both of these areas might be regarded as “ coastal “

This debate is sterile and has been going on here for years a largely North American minority opinion largely from a power boating nation obsessed with “ theoretical “ discussions about keels and rudders and displacement

Meanwhile the French are sailing the world in benny Jenny’s and so forth

Seriously have this discussion with a group of experienced French sailors , you’d be laughed out of the bar.

The same nonsense goes on about brass seacocks , yet I just saw a 20 year set of seacocks removed from a benny , the vivid were cut in two. Perfect condition. Real life trumps armchairs and “ theory “ every time.

[rotrax]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The same nonsense goes on about brass seacocks , yet I just saw a 20 year set of seacocks removed from a benny , the vivid were cut in two. Perfect condition. Real life trumps armchairs and “ theory “ every time.

20 years ago the seacocks and skin fittings/spigots fitted were better. Within the last ten years the quality of many skin fittings and seacocks of European boats has fallen. I blame the RCD code for this. It is a poor minimum standard.



A surveyor I know was looking at a Beneteau some three years ago when he noticed weep sign from a hose attached to a seacock. He grasped the hose and twisted to see if the hose was loose whereupon the spigot snapped off in his hand. The pink de-zincification was clearly evident. It was a DZR seacock - good - with a thin plumbing quality spigot for the hose - bad!


Fortunatly the boat was in the slings of the boat lift for survey.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

CR being an authoritative source given its North American origins

The 500 ( especially the older One ) is a very hard car to kill can be fixed with a screwdriver and parts are dirt cheap.

The point is why I made it. Real life experience is far better then reading consumer magazines

The same is true for armchair sailors discussing so called blue water yachts as meanwhile 1000s of AWBs safely cross oceans, sail in stormy waters and bring their crews safely to their destinations.


I’ve deliver Dozens of AWBs through conditions few leisure sailors will ever meet. Each boat has its advantages and drawbacks etc. It’s also a myth that the worse conditions are on the oceans , in my experience the Med near the Balearics throws up the worst conditions I’ve ever seen followed closely by Biscay in winter
( none of which have good shelter options ) both of these areas might be regarded as “ coastal “

This debate is sterile and has been going on here for years a largely North American minority opinion largely from a power boating nation obsessed with “ theoretical “ discussions about keels and rudders and displacement

Meanwhile the French are sailing the world in benny Jenny’s and so forth

Seriously have this discussion with a group of experienced French sailors , you’d be laughed out of the bar.

The same nonsense goes on about brass seacocks , yet I just saw a 20 year set of seacocks removed from a benny , the vivid were cut in two. Perfect condition. Real life trumps armchairs and “ theory “ every time.

You don't see the point, it's about the design parameters. Take a full crew on an AWB to sail over an ocean. Fill the tanks and stowe proviant where they are supposed to be and see how far you get before you need to regulate rations. If you have some leftovers for a week when it's done without regulating you had a BWB..

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

You don't see the point, it's about the design parameters. Take a full crew on an AWB to sail over an ocean. Fill the tanks and stowe proviant where they are supposed to be and see how far you get before you need to regulate rations. If you have some leftovers for a week when it's done without regulating you had a BWB..

This is just BS. Clearly you’ve never actually crossed an ocean

The fact is 40foot+ AWBs are taking their owners safely across oceans every year. Far more of these cross oceans then the rare semi custom stuff.

Far better to buy a 50 foot AWB and cross an ocean then use a 32 foot contessa. ( orca small HR)

The bigger boat will have acres of storage , bigger tanks , al the mod cons. Etc