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Old 24-10-2021, 10:26   #346
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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I can't proove a negative. And which serious jounalist or magazine has looked into, double-checked, and then published these facts? Have you seen them, if so, give us a link. The yachting magazine has only one young reporter who did an interview and quoted one man. Did I miss something?
Not sure whether her age matters, I'm rather glad she's young. Sure though that also the reputation of the quoted source is pretty high, don't know how much is yours. Anyway, if you have no rebuttal facts, their article stands. Up to you to prove it's all fake news.
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Old 24-10-2021, 10:37   #347
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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Interesting you trust the first link, when it doesn't contain any of the boats the second link uses. Seems one of them isn't really trustworthy.

Better forget about that bluewaterboats.org link, it's either a parody or hopelessly outdated with boats no younget than 40 years. The don't have any Hallberg Rassy above 35 feet and brands like Boreal or Garcia are totally missing, not to mention boats like Skip Novak uses for his offshore training.
Respectfully disagree. Your criticism is that the bluewaterboats.org is not absolutely comprehensive and therefore untrustworthy. Comprehensive and trustworthy are not direct correlates. Your deductive logic is based on a false premise and thus flawed. The OP indicated his level of experience as beginner as I am also. There are many reasons that correlate directly to safety and seamanship that beginners should not be considering boats above 35 feet and 200k. Personal and financial well-being spring to mind. To include Skip Novaks' custom high and low latitude commercial expedition boats here is so far from the OP's obvious intention as to be just silly. In fact your listing the 'exclusion' of such extreme examples tends to substantiate the worthiness of my cited sources. The Bluenose II is also absent from the list as is the Picton Castle. Fair Winds and Following Seas.
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Old 24-10-2021, 10:44   #348
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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Respectfully disagree. Your criticism is that the bluewaterboats.org is not absolutely comprehensive and therefore untrustworthy. Comprehensive and trustworthy are not direct correlates. Your deductive logic is based on a false premise and thus flawed.
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Old 24-10-2021, 11:21   #349
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

If you want statistics, the USCG has released its 2020 annual report on boating accidents. Deaths were up sharply in 2020, but my conclusion is that you are at least 10 times as likely to die from old age or peeing over the side than from losing your rudder or keel. You are about 100 times as likely to die in your dinghy.
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Old 24-10-2021, 11:34   #350
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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Not sure whether her age matters, I'm rather glad she's young. Sure though that also the reputation of the quoted source is pretty high, don't know how much is yours. Anyway, if you have no rebuttal facts, their article stands. Up to you to prove it's all fake news.
No, I don't have to prove that your news is fake. I asked you to prove it is true, and other than quoting Cornell, you can't (for the obvious reason that it is nonsense).

If you want to believe it fine, not too many others on the forum seem to be convinced.
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Old 24-10-2021, 11:42   #351
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pirate Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

In the good old Western Tradition... Guilty till you can Prove Yourself Innocent...
How things change over time..
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Old 24-10-2021, 11:44   #352
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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In the good old Western Tradition... Guilty till you can Prove Yourself Innocent...

How things change over time..


Itís called trial by fake news
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Old 24-10-2021, 11:48   #353
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pirate Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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Itís called trial by fake news
I do wish people would stop using that ******** cop out..
You sound just like DT...
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Old 24-10-2021, 12:02   #354
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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I do wish people would stop using that ******** cop out..
You sound just like DT...
When people make outrageous claims without any proof it should be doubted.

When it is shown to be wrong or strongly doubtfull, it constitutes misinformation.

When the original claimant doesn't like that, they say it was "fake news".
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Old 24-10-2021, 12:17   #355
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What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

Many people make completely exaggerated claims based on headline assertions without actually reading the source material which is often considerably nuanced.

They then double down in the face of criticism

The fact is keel loss is very rare even rarer where the keel hasnít preexisting conditions

The same is true for rudders. To damm a whole family of rudders on the back of a very small sample set and where the actually issues werenít all a function of spade rudders , is ridiculous.
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Old 24-10-2021, 12:30   #356
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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If you want statistics, the USCG has released its 2020 annual report on boating accidents. Deaths were up sharply in 2020, but my conclusion is that you are at least 10 times as likely to die from old age or peeing over the side than from losing your rudder or keel. You are about 100 times as likely to die in your dinghy.
Lol, do you have statistics about how many die in their dinghy? :-))

Whatever the case may be, the OP was "What EXACTLY is a 'blue water boat'?" and I've learned from that discussion picked up 4 years later that it is actually clear what it is, despite some who even deny there would be any difference between boat types, their intended purpose, seaworthiness, size, capabilities etc.

Many thanks though to @Tetepare, @Na Mara, @Mara Mae, @DeValency, @TeddyDiver, @chisr and all other experts for sharing your thoughts based on your vast experience, I am really impressed.

for now... Out.
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Old 24-10-2021, 12:35   #357
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pirate Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
When people make outrageous claims without any proof it should be doubted.

When it is shown to be wrong or strongly doubtfull, it constitutes misinformation.

When the original claimant doesn't like that, they say it was "fake news".
Having been accused of lying and 'fake news' on here in the past I am well aware of how 'The Establishment' behaves.. from boat size to anchoring..
Have noticed however over the years on here many boast of their abilities and what they've done and how good they are yet the numbers who 'fess up' to Catastrophe are very few.
Whether a boat is capable of going 'Blue (sigh) Water' has little to do with anything more than the skippers ability to cope when the SHTF..
We have folk preaching how to deal with storms.. yet how many have ever laid ahull in 60-70kts and big seas, or been hove to in a F11 in the Biscay yet both are 'Bad Tactics'
Methinks to many here read to much and experience to little to take seriously especially when they talk about 30/40kts and 10ft seas being a big deal.
Fake comes in many forms..
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Old 24-10-2021, 12:56   #358
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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Originally Posted by mibo View Post
Lol, do you have statistics about how many die in their dinghy? :-))

Whatever the case may be, the OP was "What EXACTLY is a 'blue water boat'?" and I've learned from that discussion picked up 4 years later that it is actually clear what it is, despite some who even deny there would be any difference between boat types, their intended purpose, seaworthiness, size, capabilities etc.

Many thanks though to @Tetepare, @Na Mara, @Mara Mae, @DeValency, @TeddyDiver, @chisr and all other experts for sharing your thoughts based on your vast experience, I am really impressed.

for now... Out.
So after 24 pages, could you tell us what exactly is a blue water boat then?

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Old 24-10-2021, 13:29   #359
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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So after 24 pages, could you tell us what exactly is a blue water boat then?

Very easy: Whatever he thinks it is. Doesn't really have to match reality.

If you have no opinion on your own what a blue-water boat is, here's one yo can use free of charge:

A boat with underwater LED-lights to make the water blue at night in the anchorage and in the marina. That looks very classy and is blue.
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Old 24-10-2021, 13:33   #360
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Having been accused of lying and 'fake news' on here in the past I am well aware of how 'The Establishment' behaves.. from boat size to anchoring..
Have noticed however over the years on here many boast of their abilities and what they've done and how good they are yet the numbers who 'fess up' to Catastrophe are very few.
Whether a boat is capable of going 'Blue (sigh) Water' has little to do with anything more than the skippers ability to cope when the SHTF..
We have folk preaching how to deal with storms.. yet how many have ever laid ahull in 60-70kts and big seas, or been hove to in a F11 in the Biscay yet both are 'Bad Tactics'
Methinks to many here read to much and experience to little to take seriously especially when they talk about 30/40kts and 10ft seas being a big deal.
Fake comes in many forms..
There is at least one thread on this forum devoted to just the confessionals you call for. I have even coped to a few things there myself. I’ve made so many silly bugger mistakes while sailing that it would take 24 pages on this site just to go through them all. How does any of that invalidate my views on this subject. Indeed is it not precisely because of all that experience, because that’s what mistakes are-experience, that my and other contributors views here are valuable?

I’ll cop to one more mistake that I made. When I bought my Hanse 370e there was a westerly ocean lord for sale in the same marina. It was older and a bit more banged up but fundamentally a good boat and for sale for about 20% less than the Hanse. My mistake that day was listening to all those who said that AWB’s like that Hanse were just as good offshore boats as that ocean lord only faster and more exciting to sail. I should have bought that ocean lord, but then I wouldn’t have made the mistake that I then learnt from that ultimately led to me buying my Regina.

A good sailor is not one who makes no errors, it’s one who rarely makes the same error twice.
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