What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

[DDabs]

It's all about what you want to make it comfortable when you are in "blue water"

People have sailed across oceans in literal bobbing corks and 200'+ megayachts. The difference is in the skipper, not the boat. Blue water, green skipper.

[mibo]

Originally Posted by DDabs

It's all about what you want to make it comfortable when you are in "blue water"

People have sailed across oceans in literal bobbing corks and 200'+ megayachts. The difference is in the skipper, not the boat. Blue water, green skipper.

Ok. So the quality of the boat does not matter at all. May I ask also you if you have ever crossed an ocean an on what boats/models?

[Na Mara]

Water boats">Blue water boats are quality boats because quality implies reliability and durability and those qualities are important for safety. As a plus it also helps you look good

[Simi 60]

From my observations of a few decades on the water it seems a blue water boat is whatever an owner deems it to be.
Washing machines to superyachts are all blue water boats to someone.

Not exactly my way of thinking but it clearly is for many
Bigger is most definately better in big weather

[Don C L]

I think bigger is more bluewater. I remember when I was sailing the larger boats I chartered, and when I was crewing on a semi-maxi, we'd find ourselves in conditions where I thought, "If I were here in my ol' 24 footer, I'd be a trifle concerned"... as I had another sip of wine...

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by mibo

...Nevertheless, a question: Couldn't high quality "blue water boats" from Hallberg-Rassy, Tayana, Pearson, Lafitte, Stevens, Contessa, Wauquiez, Sparkman & Stevens..... maybe cause less update cost and, hence, even be the better financial choice in the long term?...

Less update and cost than what?

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by mibo

A broken rudder is the #1 reason for offshore voyages to end pretty abruptly (as most have no emergency tiller in place) and the loss of the keel is the #1 reason for fatal accidents. Hundreds of light-weight production boats with their modern narrow fin keels (or wing keels or bulb keels) plus fragile spade rudders have just lost their boats or even their lives when going offshore and hitting high seas or a medium size whale.

Rubbish. Please share where you get your numbers for ANY of the “facts” you noted above.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by mibo

Oh my goodness, seriously?

Apart from the fact that Australia and the Pacific Islands are not exactly around the equator, it is exactly the other way round.

Bluewater boats are heavily constructed, sturdy vessels that are designed to withstand rough conditions on long offshore passages. They are usually more sea kindly and their heaviness creates less motion and heel. They are less performant, yet way more comfortable offshore.

All this has nothing to do with how warm a region is. You can hit a Mistral or Scirocco with 40kn and 6m waves in the middle of the Mediterranean summer, not to mention just normal gales/storms that may occur nearly anywhere offshore every day.

THE MOST IMPORTANT CRITERION nearly all bluewater boats have in common is a full keel or a long fin keel with a skeg rudder. A broken rudder is the #1 reason for offshore voyages to end pretty abruptly (as most have no emergency tiller in place) and the loss of the keel is the #1 reason for fatal accidents. Hundreds of light-weight production boats with their modern narrow fin keels (or wing keels or bulb keels) plus fragile spade rudders have just lost their boats or even their lives when going offshore and hitting high seas or a medium size whale.

There are more criteria, of course. Wide side decks with lots of handrails, all weather bunks, huge fuel and freshwater tanks, long range communication... and more.

Horsecrap of the highest order

100s of keels have not fallen off , gales don’t occur “ every day “. In fact the main problem is light airs.

You clearly have little serious offshore experience in a wide range of boats

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Ok so I'm the author of the "5-95%" rule. Guilty as charged!. So this comes from my sailing and from looking at boats, what they do and where they go. Like others, I have my preference for the type of boat I like and others may differ, but what stays the same , is how we use the boats.

Whether it's a heavy long keeler or a "plastic" fin keel that blasts along, the way we use them is the same and in my years in sailing, we spend as little time getting to where we're going and most enjoying destination.

For example - At rest we spend most of our time in the cockpit - If that's the case then why get a boat with a tiny cockpit thats "a great sea-going cockpit, safe as houses" etc etc , when what you really want a big cockpit that's flexible and open while bolt upright, where you can walk through without disturbing anyone and where you can lie out and enjoy the sun.

There's a reason why modern boats have big social areas and flexible layouts. Designers have looked at how we use them, the traffic areas and so on, and built the boats to suit. That's also why these boats are big hits with their owners.

Now I understand why some people like the full keel, heavy displacement boats and tiny cockpits. Each to their own - It's not my thing but and I never would own one but I understand there's a market for them. However they are a hell of a compromise when it comes to how we use them.

My comment on getting the biggest boat you can afford was really about getting one a little bigger than you think you need. Space is always a premium on boats and you'll use more than you think. If you can get bigger and not blow your initial or your ongoing maintenance budget then I would always go a little bigger (and bigger also means more speed, less time exposed at sea etc)

my 2 cents (Euros that is)

Indeed , often small cockpits with inadequate drains , compared to modern design with open transoms that can clear water instantly

Long keel , large wetted area , slow as a dog in light airs , barn door rudders that stall out , broaching the boat or feedback large forces so the autopilot drops out at the first sign of heavy weather.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

Blue water boats are quality boats because quality implies reliability and durability and those qualities are important for safety. As a plus it also helps you look good

Implies , certainly , actually , well my lewmar gear on my Bavaria is just as good as your lewmar gear you could be just buying a “ badge “

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by mibo

Ok. So the quality of the boat does not matter at all. May I ask also you if you have ever crossed an ocean an on what boats/models?

I’ve crossed in a HR , Jeanneaux , Beneteau all were quite capable , all had been modified to do long trips. The HR was older and much more gear broke as a result.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Horsecrap of the highest order

100s of keels have not fallen off , gales don’t occur “ every day “. In fact the main problem is light airs.

You clearly have little serious offshore experience in a wide range of boats

He's probably been looking at the Bluewaterboats.org site where most of the boats listed are full or long keel which are the most seaworthy according to some.

https://bluewaterboats.org/


Then usually those boats have three shrouds anchored in fiberglass not furniture plus a forestay and back stay.

There are a few other things also that are required for the old school Blue water Boat qualifications........but today the best Bluewater Boat may be the one with the best electronics which would allow it to pick and choice the weather it wants to sail in......

A nice satellite shot of the 200-500 miles of weather near you can be quite helpful......

Btw I watched this Blue Water "Boat" heading in from sea not too long ago. I believe it's a Virginia Class Boat.

Nice looking Sail.....with tethers for the crew.

[chrisr]

just throwing this out there

nowhere in this resurrected debate about 'what is a blue water boat' has the catamaran been raised

and please don't anyone try to say something like cats are not bluewater boats. just look in any cruising anchorage first...

i've owned both and cats have definite merits v monos as bluewater boats, as they have certain disadvantages

more and more people are weighing up these pros & cons, and coming out in favour of the catamaran as a 'blue water boat'

cheers,

[Tetepare]

On blue water boats the cabin soles are fixed in place. How’s that?

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by mibo

Hi DeValency,
I fully agree.
Of course "non-blue-water-boats" cross oceans and we see many more of those at major hubs than "blue water boats". What I posted was just a try to explain what the (undefined) term "blue water boat" would actually mean, as I came across that totally swirled post on top of the whole thread while doing some research for an article. The cost point is also a huge one, no doubt.
If you like, you may want to watch this interview with Dick Beaumont (Kraken). It is long but worth watching

Yes, watched this interview. The participants definitely know a lot about blue water cruising and boats. Owning a Contest 43 from the 90’s, I can definitely agree with Kraken design and build concepts but time will tell about the production quality etc.

Having said that, I think the way HR designed a dual rudder on their recent production is interesting and worth close look - this is a significant deviation from the classic designs of an integral full skeg and a massive rudder - as I have… But I do believe in progress even in this traditional arena