What does this group think of motorsailers?

[Rohan]

Been looking at larger sailboats for liveaboard and found a motorsailer that fits the bill. I wasn't even considering a motorsailer but it checks every box on my list. It needs a lot of work, but I love it. Price also allows me to make improvements.

However, the fuel tanks carry 800 gallons, which to me is insanely high for a 50' sailboat. I probably wouldn't ever fill the whole thing, because if I did, the fuel would go bad by the time I got to the bottom of the tank! Displacement is about 50,000 lbs but I don't know if that's with full or empty tanks.

So a question for the group. Like many other people here, I have an ambition to cross an ocean someday. My experience so far is only coastal cruising in a standard sailing boat. Has anyone here tried that in a motorsailer without using engines? How feasible is that? Did it have comfortable motion? (this boat is a full keel btw). And with that much fuel, how much would that affect motion? Would I see a noticeable difference in comfort and performance if I had full tanks vs one-quarter full?

I know it's no speed demon. I don't have data on this boat, but I researched similar boats, and it looks like on average it would be about one knot slower than my current Hunter sailboat. I can live with that.

[TrentePieds]

Please tell is what kinda boat it is?

TP

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Please tell is what kinda boat it is?

TP

I'm hesitant because it's fairly unique. Also, my question is about motorsailers in general if I don't end up with this one.

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by Rohan

... Has anyone here tried that in a motorsailer without using engines? How feasible is that? Did it have comfortable motion? (this boat is a full keel btw).

Yep, in a 52 footer, cutter rigged ketch, and you can sail fine. 25.5 tonnes dry. Down wind!
Although it would be helpful to know make/model of vessel you're looking at to be perhaps more or less helpful.

And she sailed very comfortably downwind and on a broad reach.

Where things didn't work out so well is that, at least in the motor sailor of my experience, she just couldn't point. Without engine horse power she could only sail 70 degrees off the wind. With opposing seas even worse, as she'd constantly fall off waves.

Comfort with winds forward of the main mast is irrelevant to me, the priority is to maintain a reasonable course based on destination. An engine failure will really upset your plans.

Obviously we try to sail ocean passages with favourable winds, but sometimes the wind blows against us. So the reality was that if the wind was forward of the mast, without the engine, we pretty much went sideways, no headway.

They're called motor sailors for a reason, and for myself it wasn't until I undertook a significant ocean passage that I really understood the difference.

[leecea]

I have a Hunter 36 too and it's not fast. If this boat sails 1 kt slower than that, it could be quite a bit slower than a decent 50' sailing boat.

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by grantmc

They're called motor sailors for a reason, and for myself it wasn't until I undertook a significant ocean passage that I really understood the difference.

Thanks for this response! Do you think it would have made a difference if your tanks were nearly empty vs full?

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by leecea

I have a Hunter 36 too and it's not fast. If this boat sails 1 kt slower than that, it could be quite a bit slower than a decent 50' sailing boat.

True enough. But I would rather go 3.5kts in total comfort than 7 kts pounding the waves for days on end.

[TrentePieds]

Without more specific information to go on only the most general opinions can be given as both grantmc and leecea have done.

Circumnavigations are perfectly feasible in motorsailer. After all, "windbags" (square-rigged ships) did 'em for hundreds of years. But you have to follow the old sailing routes, and that means that a man of today has to be something of a history buff and study up on what they are, whereas even as late as in my childhood, that was "common knowledge" for seafaring folk.

"Motorsailer" is a term of convenience. You really need to know specifics such as the type of rig (Ketch? Yawl? Bald-headed Schooner? Tops'l Schooner? Kogge?) and you need to know the Sail Area/Displacement Ratio. You need to know the horsepower per ton displacement.

We need to know if the fuel tanks are baffled, we need to know where in the hull they are located, and we need to know the "pounds per inch immersion" before we can formulate any kind of halfway sensible answer to your query.

One thing you can be sure of- it will feel like an awful slug compared with a Hunter 36. Modern fin-keeled cruising boats like the Hunter 36 were developed precisely to cater to a market that hadn't the patience to put up with "cruising boats" as they used to be :-)!

Bonne chance :-)

TrentePieds

[Fore and Aft]

Rohan a friend of mine has a steel 50-foot motorsailer ketch that has done two circumnavigations. The motor apparently was never turned off when on passage on the second circumnavigation. The boat happily lumbers along at 6 knots under motor regardless of the weather.
My friend purchased some new sails and with the wind in the right direction and someone who knows how to sail the motorsailer actually sailed alright. We were certainly surprised the first day we went out. She's never going to point to windward, but off the breeze, full rag up we were hitting 7.5 knots.
Cheers

[AiniA]

You can't comment on motorsailers as if they are all the same or even close. Some are sail-assisted motorboats that would be slugs when sailing only. We considered buying a Northeast 400 (37' on deck, Mark Ellis design, Cabo Rico built). I actually found a PHRF rating for it (180) which is not too bad. If the boat you are considering sails poorly, the 800 gallons of fuel may not be enough for an ocean crossing. You need to look at measures like SA/D. I prefer a boat that sails, is comfortable, but can be motored in a pinch

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by Rohan

Thanks for this response! Do you think it would have made a difference if your tanks were nearly empty vs full?

If it did so you'd never notice.

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

...
One thing you can be sure of- it will feel like an awful slug compared with a <name of any modern fin-keeled cruising boat> ...

Slug is an excellent description when under sail alone.
She needed 15+ knots before she'd even show a little ankle.

[leecea]

Originally Posted by AiniA

... the 800 gallons of fuel may not be enough for an ocean crossing.

It may be possible. Nordhavn claims their 56 Motorsailer, which also carries 800 gals, has a range of 3,000-nautical-miles at 6.5 knots. It is almost twice as heavy at 95,000 lbs (loaded).

[Don C L]

You say you are looking for a liveaboard, right? If the boat appeals to you in that regard, go for it! My only experience with one was the word of an acquaintance years ago who had a Lancer 44. The conclusion at the time was that he liked his boat but it didn’t excel as a sailboat or a motor yacht.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Rohan

True enough. But I would rather go 3.5kts in total comfort than 7 kts pounding the waves for days on end.

The problem with only being able to go 3.5kts, is that you will see bad weather and rough uncomfortable seas more often. A 2 week passage turns int 4, and quite often you get a good weather forecast for 2 weeks, and it turns to crud after that.

The motor sailors I have seen (and I have never sailed on one) all seem to have a much higher freeboard. This creates windage, which you need a motor to overcome. If a boat were designed such that it sails well, they wouldn't need larger tanks and to call it a motor sailor.

[Toccata]

I am refitting a Stuart 47 probably best described as a motorsailer.
135hp, Bow thruster, 21m stick with a cutter mast head rig, fast and comfortable, scheel keel with a 1.85m draft, skeg hung rudder. Sail controls lead back to the wheelhouse.
I reckon it's nearly the "perfect" combination. (is there such a thing???)
I have refitted an old 40' racing yacht, just too light to be comfortable. I have also refitted a Savage Oceanic 46' with a centre cockpit but now I want more protection hence the wheelhouse of the Stuart.
Gotta say there's no right answer, just a whole lot of "variations on the theme"