Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-10-2024, 13:12   #1
Registered User
 
Rohan's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Potomac/Chesapeake
Boat: Hunter 36
Posts: 758
What does this group think of motorsailers?

Been looking at larger sailboats for liveaboard and found a motorsailer that fits the bill. I wasn't even considering a motorsailer but it checks every box on my list. It needs a lot of work, but I love it. Price also allows me to make improvements.

However, the fuel tanks carry 800 gallons, which to me is insanely high for a 50' sailboat. I probably wouldn't ever fill the whole thing, because if I did, the fuel would go bad by the time I got to the bottom of the tank! Displacement is about 50,000 lbs but I don't know if that's with full or empty tanks.

So a question for the group. Like many other people here, I have an ambition to cross an ocean someday. My experience so far is only coastal cruising in a standard sailing boat. Has anyone here tried that in a motorsailer without using engines? How feasible is that? Did it have comfortable motion? (this boat is a full keel btw). And with that much fuel, how much would that affect motion? Would I see a noticeable difference in comfort and performance if I had full tanks vs one-quarter full?

I know it's no speed demon. I don't have data on this boat, but I researched similar boats, and it looks like on average it would be about one knot slower than my current Hunter sailboat. I can live with that.
Rohan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 13:33   #2
Moderator

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,504
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

Please tell is what kinda boat it is?

TP
TrentePieds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 13:46   #3
Registered User
 
Rohan's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Potomac/Chesapeake
Boat: Hunter 36
Posts: 758
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Please tell is what kinda boat it is?

TP
I'm hesitant because it's fairly unique. Also, my question is about motorsailers in general if I don't end up with this one.
Rohan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 13:50   #4
Registered User
 
grantmc's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: home town Wellington, NZ and Savusavu Fiji
Boat: Reinke S10 & Raven 26
Posts: 1,423
Send a message via Skype™ to grantmc
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
... Has anyone here tried that in a motorsailer without using engines? How feasible is that? Did it have comfortable motion? (this boat is a full keel btw).
Yep, in a 52 footer, cutter rigged ketch, and you can sail fine. 25.5 tonnes dry. Down wind!
Although it would be helpful to know make/model of vessel you're looking at to be perhaps more or less helpful.

And she sailed very comfortably downwind and on a broad reach.

Where things didn't work out so well is that, at least in the motor sailor of my experience, she just couldn't point. Without engine horse power she could only sail 70 degrees off the wind. With opposing seas even worse, as she'd constantly fall off waves.

Comfort with winds forward of the main mast is irrelevant to me, the priority is to maintain a reasonable course based on destination. An engine failure will really upset your plans.

Obviously we try to sail ocean passages with favourable winds, but sometimes the wind blows against us. So the reality was that if the wind was forward of the mast, without the engine, we pretty much went sideways, no headway.

They're called motor sailors for a reason, and for myself it wasn't until I undertook a significant ocean passage that I really understood the difference.
__________________
Grant Mc
The cure for everything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea. Yeah right, I wish.
grantmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 14:07   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 577
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

I have a Hunter 36 too and it's not fast. If this boat sails 1 kt slower than that, it could be quite a bit slower than a decent 50' sailing boat.
leecea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 14:36   #6
Registered User
 
Rohan's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Potomac/Chesapeake
Boat: Hunter 36
Posts: 758
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grantmc View Post
They're called motor sailors for a reason, and for myself it wasn't until I undertook a significant ocean passage that I really understood the difference.
Thanks for this response! Do you think it would have made a difference if your tanks were nearly empty vs full?
Rohan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 14:44   #7
Registered User
 
Rohan's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Potomac/Chesapeake
Boat: Hunter 36
Posts: 758
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leecea View Post
I have a Hunter 36 too and it's not fast. If this boat sails 1 kt slower than that, it could be quite a bit slower than a decent 50' sailing boat.
True enough. But I would rather go 3.5kts in total comfort than 7 kts pounding the waves for days on end.
Rohan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 14:57   #8
Moderator

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,504
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

Without more specific information to go on only the most general opinions can be given as both grantmc and leecea have done.

Circumnavigations are perfectly feasible in motorsailer. After all, "windbags" (square-rigged ships) did 'em for hundreds of years. But you have to follow the old sailing routes, and that means that a man of today has to be something of a history buff and study up on what they are, whereas even as late as in my childhood, that was "common knowledge" for seafaring folk.

"Motorsailer" is a term of convenience. You really need to know specifics such as the type of rig (Ketch? Yawl? Bald-headed Schooner? Tops'l Schooner? Kogge?) and you need to know the Sail Area/Displacement Ratio. You need to know the horsepower per ton displacement.

We need to know if the fuel tanks are baffled, we need to know where in the hull they are located, and we need to know the "pounds per inch immersion" before we can formulate any kind of halfway sensible answer to your query.

One thing you can be sure of- it will feel like an awful slug compared with a Hunter 36. Modern fin-keeled cruising boats like the Hunter 36 were developed precisely to cater to a market that hadn't the patience to put up with "cruising boats" as they used to be :-)!

Bonne chance :-)

TrentePieds
TrentePieds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 15:14   #9
Registered User
 
Fore and Aft's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Gympie
Boat: Volkscruiser
Posts: 2,891
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

Rohan a friend of mine has a steel 50-foot motorsailer ketch that has done two circumnavigations. The motor apparently was never turned off when on passage on the second circumnavigation. The boat happily lumbers along at 6 knots under motor regardless of the weather.
My friend purchased some new sails and with the wind in the right direction and someone who knows how to sail the motorsailer actually sailed alright. We were certainly surprised the first day we went out. She's never going to point to windward, but off the breeze, full rag up we were hitting 7.5 knots.
Cheers
Fore and Aft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 15:24   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto area when not travelling
Boat: Nonsuch 30
Posts: 1,714
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

You can't comment on motorsailers as if they are all the same or even close. Some are sail-assisted motorboats that would be slugs when sailing only. We considered buying a Northeast 400 (37' on deck, Mark Ellis design, Cabo Rico built). I actually found a PHRF rating for it (180) which is not too bad. If the boat you are considering sails poorly, the 800 gallons of fuel may not be enough for an ocean crossing. You need to look at measures like SA/D. I prefer a boat that sails, is comfortable, but can be motored in a pinch
__________________
Have taken on the restoration of the first Nonsuch, which was launched in 1978. Needs some deck work, hull compounding, and a bit of new gear.
AiniA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 16:13   #11
Registered User
 
grantmc's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: home town Wellington, NZ and Savusavu Fiji
Boat: Reinke S10 & Raven 26
Posts: 1,423
Send a message via Skype™ to grantmc
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
Thanks for this response! Do you think it would have made a difference if your tanks were nearly empty vs full?
If it did so you'd never notice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
...
One thing you can be sure of- it will feel like an awful slug compared with a <name of any modern fin-keeled cruising boat> ...
Slug is an excellent description when under sail alone.
She needed 15+ knots before she'd even show a little ankle.
__________________
Grant Mc
The cure for everything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea. Yeah right, I wish.
grantmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 18:08   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 577
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AiniA View Post
... the 800 gallons of fuel may not be enough for an ocean crossing.
It may be possible. Nordhavn claims their 56 Motorsailer, which also carries 800 gals, has a range of 3,000-nautical-miles at 6.5 knots. It is almost twice as heavy at 95,000 lbs (loaded).
leecea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 21:40   #13
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 15,015
Images: 67
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

You say you are looking for a liveaboard, right? If the boat appeals to you in that regard, go for it! My only experience with one was the word of an acquaintance years ago who had a Lancer 44. The conclusion at the time was that he liked his boat but it didn’t excel as a sailboat or a motor yacht.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2024, 22:50   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Morgan 382
Posts: 3,508
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
True enough. But I would rather go 3.5kts in total comfort than 7 kts pounding the waves for days on end.
The problem with only being able to go 3.5kts, is that you will see bad weather and rough uncomfortable seas more often. A 2 week passage turns int 4, and quite often you get a good weather forecast for 2 weeks, and it turns to crud after that.

The motor sailors I have seen (and I have never sailed on one) all seem to have a much higher freeboard. This creates windage, which you need a motor to overcome. If a boat were designed such that it sails well, they wouldn't need larger tanks and to call it a motor sailor.
__________________
-Warren
wholybee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2024, 00:45   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Paynesville Victoria Australia
Boat: Stuart 47
Posts: 207
Re: What does this group think of motorsailers?

I am refitting a Stuart 47 probably best described as a motorsailer.
135hp, Bow thruster, 21m stick with a cutter mast head rig, fast and comfortable, scheel keel with a 1.85m draft, skeg hung rudder. Sail controls lead back to the wheelhouse.
I reckon it's nearly the "perfect" combination. (is there such a thing???)
I have refitted an old 40' racing yacht, just too light to be comfortable. I have also refitted a Savage Oceanic 46' with a centre cockpit but now I want more protection hence the wheelhouse of the Stuart.
Gotta say there's no right answer, just a whole lot of "variations on the theme"
Toccata is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
motor, motorsailer, sail

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'74-'75 Gulfstar 44 Motorsailers CrewDo Monohull Sailboats 17 23-03-2022 11:39
Motorsailers? Trawlers? skyhawk Powered Boats 33 12-12-2020 20:01
Island Trader Motorsailers Dudley Haycraft Meets & Greets 9 28-06-2012 18:01
Rogger 46 Motorsailers - Are they Seaworthy ? ReefRaff Monohull Sailboats 18 19-09-2011 01:50
Let's Talk Motorsailers / Pilothouses bljones General Sailing Forum 21 28-11-2010 09:10

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.